Tennessee Titans Wide Receiver Debate

by Jimmy on Mar 11, 2008 12:01 PM CDT in News Comment 43 comments

Everyone always throws out there that the Titans need to get a #1 receiver. It is debatable if the Titans have ever had a true #1 receiver. Derrick Mason had a couple of 90+ catch seasons, but I don't think he was ever the game-changer that you think of when you think of a #1 receiver. My question is how many #1 receivers are there in the league? Here are the guys I have come up with that are #1 receivers (in no particular order):

1.    Randy Moss
2.    Terrell Owens
3.    Steve Smith
4.    Chad Johnson
5.    T.J. Houshmandzadeh
6.    Braylon Edwards
7.    Andre Johnson
8.    Marvin Harrison (assuming he is healthy)
9.    Reggie Wayne
10.    Plaxico Burress
11.    Roy Williams
12.    Joey Galloway (?)
13.    Larry Fitzgerald
14.    Tory Holt

There are 32 NFL teams, and only 14 #1 receivers by my count. Are there countless guys in the NFL that would be upgrades to the Titans roster? Yes, but I think they would be stupid Bernard Berrian $16 million guaranteed. You don't want to tie up that kind of money in a guy that isn't that good, because even though he would be an upgrade from what the Titans have now, he doesn't make them a Super Bowl contender, and he would end up hurting them down the road because of all the money that was tied up in him. The same can be said about Donte Stallworth. Giving him $10 million guaranteed upgrades your team, but it doesn't make you better than the Patriots. That is why I don't think anyone should be upset that the Titans didn't make a bigger play for these guys.

Now trading for a receiver is a different argument. What if the Arizona Cardinals came to the Titans and said they would be willing to part with Fitzgerald for a first and second round draft pick in this year's draft. The Titans would be insane to not make that deal. While Berrian and Stallworth don't make the Titans a Super Bowl contender, Fitzgerald absolutely would. Draft picks are so over-valued in the NFL these days. Look at what the Titans have added in the first and second round in the last 3 seasons:

2005- #32, Michael Roos
2006- Vince Young, LenDale White
2007- Michael Griffin, Chris Henry

How many of those guys would you not give up to get Fitzgerald? My answer is Vince Young. That is the only one, and I love Roos and Griffin. Sure you would have to take on Fitzgerald's salary, but would you rather pay him $20-25 million guaranteed or Berrian $16 million. That is a no brainer.

Now I have no idea what the Cardinals are asking for Fitzgerald, or if he is even available, but if I am the Titans' GM I am calling them every day with a new offer to try and get him away. There probably isn't a #1 receiver in this draft, and even if there is it would take a couple of years for that guy to get there. It is dumb to put all your eggs in that basket.
Bottom line: I am not upset that the Titans let any of the guys in free agency go elsewhere. I will be upset though if they aren't making a push to get a guy that might be available.

Thoughts....

Update [2008-3-11 14:29:3 by Jimmy]: The Cardinals must have read what I wrote and got scared.

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uuuggghhhh

Fitzgerald just signed a 4 year contract extension with the Cards:

"According to an announcement posted on what appears to be his personal web site, Cardinals receiver Larry Fitzgerald has agreed to a four-year, $40 million contract with the team.

Fitzgerald's site says that he'll get $30 million guaranteed, and $33 million over the next three years."

- from PFT http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Looks like it's gonna be the draft for our WR fix(es).

DEAR M. REINFELDT: PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS GOOD DRAFT EARL BENNETT!!!

by August West on Mar 11, 2008 12:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Jimmy!

Are the Cardinals shopping Fitzgerald? Or is all of this hypothetical? Cause you are really getting my blood pressure up.

How awesome would that be.

Proud Member of the Michael Griffin Man-Crush Club.

by gramsey712 on Mar 11, 2008 12:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

And AW answers my question.

Proud Member of the Michael Griffin Man-Crush Club.

by gramsey712 on Mar 11, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One last shot -

I say we call up crazy A$$ Matt Millen, pitch #32 and a 2nd & 3rd round pick for Roy Williams, since Fitz is not longer in the picture. Detroit is hurting for some DBs and Millen is stupid enough to go for something like that.

by TrenchantTitan on Mar 11, 2008 12:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Word was

they were never interested in ridding themselves of Fitz. They were made plenty of offers and said no to all of them.

Now I do have some beefs with your #1 WR list. There are 2 #1 WRs in Arizona. Don't believe me go look up their stats. Boldin is one of the best WRs in the league, and most underrated.

I would also put these players in the #1 category

M.Colston- no doubt in his 2 seasons he has been a game changer.

D.Driver-5 of his last 6 years has put up over 1,000yds.

B.Marshall-was unstoppable this season.

These players have to be included if you include B.Edwards and R.Williams. I also think that L.Coles and L.Evans are #1 caliber and their numbers are held down by their teams horrid QB play. And I'd say Greg Jennings is on the verge.

So I count 20.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 11, 2008 12:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

20 still isn't 32....

....That is really my point. What's weird is that those 20 guys are only on 16 teams..

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Mar 11, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will just say

that I think its imperative that we draft a WR in the 1st rd. If you don't want to pay all that money to a FA Wr then you have to draft one. You need one, one way or another.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 11, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You guys are gonna be disappointed.

I'm sorry to say it, but I just want you to be mentally prepared for when the first pick is a DE.

DannoE

Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Thanks!

by DannoE on Mar 11, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i know it's a new GM, but...

i REALLY don't trust our staff to evaluate WR's in the draft. even free agency has been pretty awful. Mason was the only true, 100% success story since they have been in nashville. thigpen, pickens, dyson(had his moments, but never worth #16 pick), mcareins, calico, givens, and more have all been busts, not to mention all the smaller name guys who have been marginally successful at best. if there was any position the titans needed to spend a bunch (even over spend) is on one of the few slam-dunk, no doubt about it guys that was available in FA or via trade. we need WR's like crazy, for sure, but history gives me little faith that we can pick a good one, esp lower down in the 1st round like we are.

by hal41605 on Mar 11, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can't draft one 24th!

#1 receivers don't usually put up the numbers for a while, and Calvin Johnson types are a rare breed indeed.

We draft for the future, but it won't help anytime soon. Don't think Paul Williams from last year is ready to make a splash either... Biren Ealy? Could that be the guy?

I bet Vince would like to punch Reinfeldt in the head right about now.

by BeansCarter on Mar 11, 2008 1:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Marques Colston

you can also get them on the 7th rd.

Go Titans!

by Pinoy Titan on Mar 11, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Pinoy!

I saw the wreck on the news!! You OK?? Family??

Proud Member of the Michael Griffin Man-Crush Club.

by gramsey712 on Mar 12, 2008 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, we're ok.

Thanks man. Glad I was not driving on that highway at that time.

More than 200 cars damaged in one freaking accident. It was a like a scene from an action film. It's crazy how people drive here even in heavy fog conditions.

Go Titans!

by Pinoy Titan on Mar 12, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

just for kicks...

Anquan Boldin, Javon Walker and Reggie Wayne all disagree with you. (there's a thousand counter examples, but I'm just sayin it could happen...)

DEAR M. REINFELDT: PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS GOOD DRAFT EARL BENNETT!!!

by August West on Mar 11, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Y'know, there is a body of evidence out there...

...that says that WR is actually one of the LEAST important positions on the field. Granted, I think Randy Moss probably gave the Pats at least 2 games by himself last season, but overall... I mean, there is a lot more going on.

Here's one:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/376861/which_football_position_is_the_most.html

And my favoritem from Slate.com:

http://www.slate.com/id/2173817/

I'm just saying... I think D-Line help is more important.

DannoE

Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Thanks!

by DannoE on Mar 11, 2008 2:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Exerpt:

"Whither the wideouts?

They are the loudest players on the roster, always insisting on the damn ball. But in the grand scheme, a team with a great quarterback but average receivers is in much better shape than the reverse--witness the Patriots last year. I'd also argue that the best linemen and defenders have much more impact than the top receivers--they simply don't have stats that quantify that impact. Call it the fantasy football effect: Like the best running backs, big-time receivers get money and status far in excess of their effect on the final score. (I'd place receiving tight ends, like Antonio Gates, Dallas Clark, and Tony Gonzalez, in with this group as well--they're valuable downfield threats, but they are rarely called upon to block and struggle to do so effectively.)"

DannoE

Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Thanks!

by DannoE on Mar 11, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sorry but...

we only scored 9 passing tds last year(less than 20% of the pats total), and it sure wasn't all vince's fault. crumpler should be a huge help, but not enough.
maybe you don't need dominating WR play, but our corps is a flat out joke. the pats start 3 WR's that would be our #1 guy, by a long shot. same for indy. same for cincy. same for the giants. im sure there are others. we aren't talking about a "not strong" group of receivers, we are talking about a group that is barely NFL caliber, and it showed every single game.

by hal41605 on Mar 11, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we all would agree..

That WR is a huge need. But the guys available in free agency are not the answer. Yes we have cap room, but only a finite amount. Jevon Walker signed a 6 year $55 million contract. That is crazy. We signed Gage for 1/3 of the price. Maybe Walker is better, but is he three times better?

Before we start flying off the handle, let's see how things play out. There are rumblings on other message boards about trades.

Otherwise, be patient. Pay for someone who is worth it. IE. Roy Williams in one year. Overpaying for someone in free agency can ruin a team in terms of cap space down the road...

by SuperHorn on Mar 11, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let me throw some stats at this for clarification

From NFL.com.

Year    Name    G    Rec    Yds    Avg    Yds/G    Long    TD
2007    Jevon Walker      8    26    287    11.0    35.9    24    0
2007    Bernard Ber. 16    71    951    13.4    59.4    59      5
2007    Donte Stall. 16    46    697    15.2    43.6    69    3
2007    Roydell Will. 16    55    719    13.1    44.9    48    4
2007    Justin Gage      16    55    750    13.6    46.9    73    2

Jevon Walker - 6 years $55 Mil
Bernard Berrian - 6 years $42 Mil
Donte Stallworth - 7 years $35 Mil
Justin Gage - 4 years $14 Mil

by SuperHorn on Mar 11, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree....

....it is the 9 passing TDs that is the reason THIS team needs a receiver so bad. It wasn't all the receivers, but that was a lot of it IMO.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Mar 11, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

100% Agree

D-Line helps everyone else on the team. IMO, the front office has done nearly everything correctly this offseason. Although, back to the original point, it would have been interesting to make a run at Kris Jenkins or Marcus Stroud in a trade to play alongside Fat Al. Imagine trying to account for KVB, Hayneworth, Marcus Stroud, and The Freak. It may have not been worth the price, but it's still fun to think about.

by SuperHorn on Mar 11, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no way

in hell does jack del rio ever allow trade talks with this organization, especially for someone of stroud's caliber. i love the idea of those four, and stroud only cost buffalo a 3rd and 5th, but i bet the titans would have had to give up WAY more than that to swap him in the same division. that would be a terrifying d-line though.
a "big play" wide receiver would change the look of this offense over night. defenses have a way easier time when the safeties can line up 15-20 yards deep and never worry about getting beat long. our running game might even improve more than the passing game once we force teams to respect a deep threat. facing 8-9 guys "in the box" every down just makes it that much harder than when the safeties have to play honest and take a few more steps back.
I certainly don't want to see us over pay for someone who is a #1 pretender (javon walker, berrian, stallworth) but a trade featuring our "rainmaker" and some choice draft picks might be enough to pull away someone pretty talented, perhaps around draft day. otherwise, there is always a pool of high priced players that get freed up in the summer when the cap and roster cuts are made.

by hal41605 on Mar 12, 2008 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can someone

tell me what the Sure #1 WR's in last years draft did? the Meachems, Ginn's and so forth?

This is the same dang arguement that was going on last year and correct me if I'm wrong, Our current WR corps out performed any of those "have to draft guys"

Until the Titans FO really blows a signing lay off them! MR has yet to be proven wrong!!!

by white02slpss on Mar 11, 2008 3:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't get me wrong

I'm not hating on the front office. I'm just giving my opinion and my hopes on what we do, and that is to draft a WR. I like pretty much everything Rienfeldt has done so far.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 11, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

mike rucker

hey superhorn...how would mike rucker from the panthers do? he's not exactly young (9 yrs in the league), but he probably has 1-2 yrs left in the tank. Last report i saw said he was still available...

also, the more i look into dustin keller (purdue TE), the more i think he would be a great addition.

by titanintx on Mar 11, 2008 4:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Need to do more research

But the guy was a stud in his prime. The acl tear a year or so is a concern.

A solid DT would be better, given the personnel we have. If you had Haynesworth and another stud in the middle, two things can happen on a given play
a) One of them is in single coverage while the other is doubled by the center/guard.
b) You are forced to double them both (center/guard and guard/tackle) leaving a DE vs. TE matchup for either KVB or Jevon Kearse.

Another solid DT in the line would make this team a lot more dangerous and less schizophrenic when Haynesworth is in/out. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a solid option available.

I know I'll sound like a homer, but if someone can motivate Frank Okam, he could be a serious steal in the mid rounds of the draft.

by SuperHorn on Mar 11, 2008 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will say this then

I really hope the Titans pick J.Hardy, M.Kelly, or L.Sweed if they are there when we pick. I think they are better than last years crop.

And if they aren't, go DE.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 11, 2008 4:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

WRS

Don't you think we should sign Bryant Johnson. I just read an article that says that we are looking at him. He has the size and speed to be a real good receiver. Could be our steal signing of the off season. A sleeper type guy. What do you think? Then we can focus on defense in the first round of the draft and get a player like Dan Connor or Justin King.

Air it out in 08 VINCE

by Griffinator on Mar 11, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like it

if it's cheap.

by SuperHorn on Mar 11, 2008 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Real cheap!

Like 5$ a game cheap. A dollar per drop every Sunday.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 11, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The sleeper-type guys are the whole point...

...of successful free agency. It's like Fantasy Football. Everyone knows who the stars are. You win and lose based largely on your knowledge of the other stuff and the non-stars.

DannoE

Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Thanks!

by DannoE on Mar 12, 2008 7:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

20 out of 32

That doesn't surprise me. If you made a list of QBs you'd like to have starting for your team (franchise QBs), you'd come up with less than 32 also. The stud WRs are great when you can get them, but I really think the way fans focus on them and the way they are in the spotlight causes them to eventually be over-valued in terms of price. I'd take a stable of good #2 receivers with a good QB and good coaching over a flashy stud receiver. Moss in Oakland, for example = no good. The raiders had too many other problems to fix before Moss would have been effective. Titans also have tons of other improvements to make (and have made I think with off. coord change) besides paying gonzo bucks for a Moss / Stallworth / Johnson type receiver.

I think they'll pick up at least two more WRs - one during FA and one during draft. Hopefully one of those guys has raw speed - that's a specific attribute they need at WR - a guy that can get open downfield quickly. Also the time for that is right with Dinger back.

Also, I think they just need more (or better) practice. While there were a fair number of drops last year, there were also plenty of plays that looked busted - WRs and QB not on same page at all.

by numbertenox on Mar 11, 2008 6:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i

chulk it up to norm chows play calling. nobody wanted to play for him. recivers droping passes cus they know they can. all the busted plays when vince walks off the field on 4th down pointing to his reciver he should have gone the other way as he walks to the sideline.
norm chow used vince as a pocket passer and hes not. i remember him throwing the ball way down field and kind of cringing cus i knew it was going to be picked off or it was off target by a mile. some of the lack of points has todo with vinces play also along with chow play calling and lack of motivating these guys. also the recivers didnt help us any.
so its a combonation of things as to why we only scored 9 tds last year. a reciver would be good in the first round but i dont think if we get some big name reciver in free agency we are suddenly going to score tons more points we wont, so why waste big money on one?
if we stick to the recivers we have now i know we will score twice the number or maybe even 3 times the number of tds we scored last year. it was a freak event only scoring that many points. just like 4 or 5 years ago when everybody was hurt. same thing a freak event. get a good reciver with the number one pick and hope for the best with him.

by dentureboy on Mar 11, 2008 7:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

not a chow fan

but I remember last year, coming off of vince's stunning rookie season, when everyone in the world new the titans HAD to get him some more weapons. it was a universal consensus.
then we slept through free agency.
then we ignored WR early in the draft.
then we went into the season with virtually no improvement at the position, and our passing offense and scoring sucked.
i just don't see how we can afford to make that mistake twice in a row. gotta support the franchise, and the franchise IS vince young.

by hal41605 on Mar 12, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last year and this year

Are very different, IMO, because we are keeping the core receivers. Not enough can be said about the chemistry a quarterback develops with his receivers. Keeping Roydell and Gage here long term until there is clearly a better option is key to Vince's development. Playing musical chairs with WR's of the same caliber every year will hurt VY's development in the long run.

And, I agree that Chow was a bum and think that played a HUGE role in the poor passing game.

In response to sleeping through free agency and ignoring WR early in the draft; out of those free agents/draftees who made an immediate impact? I can think of two: Randy Moss and Dwayne Bowe. Randy wanted a shot at a Superbowl. As far as I'm concerned, the Patriots may have been the only team with a chance at him. Dwayne has played very well in Kansas City, but pre draft I remember most people wanting Robert Meachem. Also, look at Tennessee's track record at drafting WR's...it doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy feeling. Wide receivers in the draft are a crap shoot. Without doing any research, I'd gander that Justin Gage is more productive than the majority of 1st round Wide Receivers taken in the last five years. Build your team around guys like this, keep available cap room, and then tie up a guy like Roy Williams or Chad Johnson when the opportunity presents itself.

Here's a question for you...who do you think we passed on in FA last year that we should have picked up? I haven't included the draft in this question because if any of us had that kind of insight to pick the gems in the draft, we'd probably be swimming in a pool of money instead of arguing about Front Office decisions on this blog...

by SuperHorn on Mar 12, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

we had more

cap space than most teams last year, and simply watched players leave without replacing them.
yes chemistry will improve our passing game, but not nearly as much as gage and williams seeing #2 and #3 cover instead of one of them getting blanketed by any teams best corner and the other being average.
adding someone who can draw AND handle the tough coverage will have a much bigger effect on those 2 guys' production that 1 offseason.
just as a counter example, last offseason the pats bought an entire receiving corps, and they had gaffney before that, who is better and more proven than anyone we have currently. faced with the same issue (poverty at WR) the pats spent the money and Brady turns in the best statistical season at QB ever. coincidence? hell no.
even a super bowl winning QB is only as good as his targets. IMO, it's even MORE important for a "young" QB like ours. any of those 3 guys would have been an upgrade for this team.
definitely agree about the draft, as i said on here earlier, i trust the front office about zero at that position.
also, it's far to early to judge last years draft class, because almost no one comes up huge their rookie year. (yet another reason we need a proven guy instead of a drafted guy)
as far as last offseason goes, we didn't draft a WR early, didn't trade up. i really don't care why they didn't get it done, the bottom line is it was a glaring need and we never addressed it-draft or free agency (in fact it got worse when we let bennet go, granted the rams overpaid). so when a weakness gets weaker, and you ignore it and have to watch a season of some of the worst passing offense in the NFL, then we again do nothing in free agency... see where this is going? how can you expect improvement with out making any improvements. depending on gage and williams to suddenly become what they are not (a top tier receiving threat) seems like a pretty poor strategy.
you mean to say we couldn't find something better than what we have now ANYWHERE else at a decent price? no other teams in the league seem to have that problem, at least not as bad as we do. find a team with a more lackluster group of receivers than ours, i would love to know who it is.

by hal41605 on Mar 12, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No quick fixes

"[Y]ou mean to say we couldn't find something better than what we have now ANYWHERE else at a decent price?"

That is exactly what I am saying. Here is what I think...It's easy as a fan to sit here and get frustrated about the Front Office's lack of activity. WR is clearly a GLARING need. The problem is that guys like Randy Moss/TO/Ocho Cinco/ etc aren't just sitting around in Free Agency. There aren't any upgrades in Free Agency at the right price. You can over pay for the guys I mentioned in a post above, but check the stats...it just doesn't make sense. Then, you've blown your wad and when a true stud is available we can't pay.

Note that this offseason isn't over yet, and Fisher has been vocal that he recognizes the lack of receiving weapons around Vince. I think we need to wait until after the draft before we start pointing fingers.

I digress. Back to the question...What do you think the front office should have done differently last year and this year? Get specific with names, etc. I think you'll find that were no quick fixes.

by SuperHorn on Mar 12, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

any improvement is better than no improvement

any improvement is better than no improvement (which is what happened at best last year). it wouldn't take a great WR to be better than what we have. the pats sure were able to find some, and get great values on all 3 contracts.

what team DOESN'T have better receivers than the titans? how many teams have 2 or even 3 guys better than what we have and have had for the last few years? it is a recurring problem with this organization.

all i'm saying is, last year we blew it, clearly, with only having 9 passing td's. that's gotta be the lowest total for a playoff team in years and years. so far, no improvement. am i getting antsy? probably. but my eyes can't take another year of what occurred when the defense wasn't on the field.

As for your question:
check out
http://www.fantasyfootballstarters.com/wtw_07FAWR.jsp
notice where moulds and gage fall on the list. i think that proves the point that some sort of upgrade, even if it wasn't a HOF'er, was certainly available

by hal41605 on Mar 12, 2008 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right...

but, more specifically, WHO? It's easy to point to a list and say there are a bunch of receivers better than ours, but until you qualify who that is, I can't compare numbers and salaries...

by SuperHorn on Mar 12, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dwayne Blakley

was here to visit. I really liked him in his last short stint here. I think he would be a great fit at the 3rd TE spot.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 12, 2008 8:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If we're rehashing old practice squad TEs...

I wish we'd have held on to Gregg Guenther... he was like 6'9" and had some scoot too. I think he's with the Bengals now, but he had some awesome catches in the 2005 preseason.

Plus, every team needs a huge guy with a name like Guenther (accent preferable, but we'll take it).

DEAR M. REINFELDT: PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS GOOD DRAFT EARL BENNETT!!!

by August West on Mar 12, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs