2012 NFL Draft: All This Quentin Coples Bashing Reminds Me Of Something
Recognize the guy in the picture? He was one of the most disruptive forces in football last year. Nobody wanted anything to do with him this time last year. On draft day, we all rejoiced when the Giants took him before we had a chance to. We laughed at their misfortune, there was nothing to like about Pierre-Paul, he was known only for doing backflips.
Well that kind of sucked in retrospect.
Derrick Morgan has got a long way to go if he wants to be Jason Pierre-Paul. Two years ago I'd have thought for sure that the roles would be reversed. In any case, Morgan isn't alone, 99% of the league's defensive ends have a long way to go to match JPP's production from 2011, however, I do wish the discrepancy were less evident. I don't know that Morgan will ever be the pass rusher that Pierre-Paul has become, but so far his career has been one big worst case scenario, I have a feeling that the chips will start to fall in his favor pretty soon, he was simply too good of a player to fizzle out like this at the next level.
But this is not a post about Derrick Morgan and his perceived shortcomings, this is about the mistake the Titans made two years ago and how they can avoid making it again in 2012.
First of all, don't listen to the pre-draft hype concerns that will undoubtedly follow a player like Coples into April. Despite all the concerns about a massive drop off, Coples still had a reasonably productive season and absolutely dominated the guys he went against in one-on-ones, both in game situations and in the Senior Bowl. Yes, it appears that at times he could appear disinterested in the game, but what lots of evaluators seem to forget is that once these players get to the NFL, they're being motivated by massive amounts of money. Money talks guys, it really does. I always am hesitant to just give up on a prospect because their motor is allegedly lacking some horsepower. Be honest; if a Hall of Fame lineman is in your face about something, you're going to listen. Assume these concerns really are legit, I'd argue that he just needs a wakeup call. If someone can get through to him early, there's nothing stopping him.The same concerns applied to Pierre-Paul coming out of college, he's turned in a fine few seasons and looked very motivated doing it.
Second, try not to base an entire career off of one season. This was our main concern when JPP came out; we saw one season of D1 football, granted, a season in which he dominated, but one season nonetheless. It was a legitimate concern. So what I propose is that we do the same thing when looking at Coples. Try not to just focus on the letdown senior year, at the same time don't just look at the breakout junior year. In fact, I'd recommend just watching him play, that's given me some perspective on the guy I didn't have before. For example, I never really thought Coples was a very fast player, and for the most part that's true, but when he comes off the edge he looks as quick and explosive as anyone I've seen. Suffice it to say that his main weapon is his strength; when Coples engages a lineman and wins the battle of leverage, it's game over, he's going to drive them backwards. In that respect, he's not quite the same type of player that JPP is, he's plenty athletic but doesn't just rely on it. I think it'd be a cop out at this point to say that he's a "solid run defender" just because he's not all about speed an finesse, but to a certain degree it's true, he looks good against the run.
What I'm trying to say is that your opinion on Quinton Coples should not be formed based only on the fact that you've heard that he's not interested in playing football for a middling ACC team. Instead, watch him play and see the potential to have a fantastic pair of defensive ends. Like Jimmy said, the Titans are one good pass rusher away from having a scary defense. This is a team in search of its' star, in the even that he drops all the way to 20, let's give Coples a chance to be that star.
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JPP
How much do you think JPP’s production this past year has to do with the coaching staff in that locker room and the other lineman on that team? We can look back at the 2010 draft and wish that the Giants took Morgan and we took JPP, but I’m not convinced he’d be the same player on our team being coached by Tracy Rocker. Now, I don’t know enough about what goes on in practice, but something tells me that if Morgan was a Giant there might be a lot more people talking about how good he is. Seems like the Giants just know how to produce pass rushers just like Washburn did.
I’m excited to see if Keith Millard brings a new dimension to our D-Line’s abilities.
The problem with someone like JPP coming out of college was the amount of physical freaks that bust
For every JPP and Aldon Smith you have Vernon Gholston and Aaron Maybin
I watch the Music City Miracle every time I visit MCM just because I can
Should read the problem with assessing JPP coming out of college
I watch the Music City Miracle every time I visit MCM just because I can
Were Gholston and Amaybin physical freaks?
They were talented, but neither blew away the combine with size or speed from what I recall.
Yeah Gholston was only a top 10 pick because of his combine stats
And I dont know Maybins numbers but after he was cut, I remember hearing how he was picked up by the raiders because of their tendency to pick athletes over football players.
I watch the Music City Miracle every time I visit MCM just because I can
JPP is a beast, I wish he had fallen to the Titans however, I'm not saying Derrick Morgan cant be as beastly one day.
I agree with MangieOne that the coaching staff probably had a lot to do with his development , but he has become one of my favorite non-Titans.
MCM's Favorite Hawkeye
And as far as selecting a DE this year, I have my little heart set on Melvin Ingram.
the guy is just a phenomenal player and would really boost this defense.
MCM's Favorite Hawkeye
mistake?
jpp was drafted before the titans pick so its not like the titans took morgan over him. we’ll never know who they had rated higher.
by jpalmer76 on Feb 16, 2012 7:22 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
that’s not the mistake I’m referring to, I meant the mistake in judging a player based on pre-draft buzz words, not taking in the whole picture, etc.
we're gonna skate to one song and one song only.
but how do you/we know that the Titans weren't going to draft JPP at #16 if he'd been there ?
I don’t ever remember someone from the Titans saying “there’s no way we’re taking JPP in the first round because of his hype and rawness.”
And what were we supposed to do? Give up our 2nd round pick (which we didn’t have in ‘10) to move up ONE spot and draft a inexperienced DE when one of the more solid DE’s was still on the board?
In the past couple of years I’ve read a lot on this blog about “college production” over “physical attributes” because ncaa production usually leads to nfl production …. but now the rule is ignore that thought if the player “looks fast” when you watch his college film?
And again … what is the mistake the Titans made 2 years ago? and “judging a player based on predraft buzz words” doesn’t fly because I don’t see any evidence of that. They literally did not have the opportunity to draft JPP so please pinpoint the specific mistake.
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Feb 16, 2012 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
My thoughts entirely
I don’t see how the Titans made a mistake…
Yes, Derrick Morgan has had his struggles, but hindsight is always 20/20. And, even still, we wouldn’t have been able to select JPP.
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by TitanNDCClothing on Feb 16, 2012 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
Every video of coples i have watched i have been EXTREMELY un-impressed
He seems slow off the snap, didn’t move defenders, and just had a general lack of effort. There are the highlight vids of him dominating defenders which, on occasion, he does. I don’t like the pick at all.
but we were wrong ab JPP so we're all wrong about Coples
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Feb 16, 2012 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
I'd say another DE reminds me more of JPP
As far as one year wonders go (like JPP) I think Whitney Previous is more comparable. He had a heck of a yr this season, but its his only good season of work.
mercilus? lol
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by Ice0ne (CAJ) on Feb 16, 2012 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
lol!!
Previous would also be a cool last name … but it would have to be spelled:
Previus
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Feb 16, 2012 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
That would have been two years ago
2010-2012
Last year would be Jake Locker.
Haters gonna hate
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JPP - the Titans pick?
I truly believe – and this is just gut instinct – that the Titans would have taken Pierre-Paul with their pick had the Giants not taken him.
A similar situation happened in a previous draft when the Giants picked one spot ahead of the Titans and took Hakeem Nicks. Our next pick was Kenny Britt. I have always wondered who the Titans had ranked higher.
^ this
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Feb 16, 2012 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
Morgan has been hurt.
Let’s give him a healthy season or two before we decide how smart of a draft pick he was. If we never get that healthy season, well, there’s your answer.
I don’t know that Coples is directly comparable to JPP. The big knock on JPP is that he had one huge year, but nothing prior to it. Coples had a huge year then a let down year. So, the circumstances are kind of different. Also, I haven’t looked much into Coples—is he a JPP level athletic freak?
In any case, I think we have to caution ourselves not to take every athletic/risky DE and immediately point to JPP as the reason we should draft him (and I’m not accusing you of this D. Reese). For every JPP, there seems to be the guy who fails miserably, as well.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Feb 16, 2012 8:43 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
It's the truth
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Haha. True.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Feb 16, 2012 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
This has been my argument all along.
JPP succeeded, great. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t a huge boom-or-bust prospect, and we’ve seen tons of them bust.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 16, 2012 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
^ this precisely
Just because another team was fortunate doesn’t mean we should try and ride that luck.
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Feb 16, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
Wouldn't Whitney Mercilus be more comparable to JPP?
Which is who I want on the Titans.
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i want him too
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by Ice0ne (CAJ) on Feb 16, 2012 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not going to even lie.... i'd say 40% of the reason is because I want to see 'Mercilus' on a Titans Jersey
His name would be awesome to have on D-line.
But seriously though, this guy is a beast. Seems like a carbon copy of JPP
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hahaha, i'd love to see his name on
one of our jerseys too. but yeah, he put up some great numbers.
i think he’ll be a stud
The best sig ever, reason 1, reason 2, reason 3, reason 4 Just got even Better, 0ne L0ve To Ben Breedl0ve
by Ice0ne (CAJ) on Feb 16, 2012 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
Yes. Much better comparison.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 16, 2012 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
JPP didn't have that great of stats in college
He had 6.5 sacks and 16.5 TFL with 2 forced fumbles in his one year at South Florida. That is equivalent to Coples “down” year this past year. Plus JPP didn’t put up that great of numbers at the combine.
JPP is in the perfect system for his talents…that is why he is having such great success
by shawneriksmith on Feb 16, 2012 9:31 AM CST via Android app reply actions
Over the long run, when considering draft strategy, I believe that production trumps potential, especially in the earlier rounds.
There are other considerations like the system, and injuries that should be taken into account. All things equal, I’d prefer the prospect that consistently produces on the field.
Agreed.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 16, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed as well
i thought most of us agreed on that last year ….
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Feb 16, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
Coples and JPP aren't that similar.
My concerns with JPP were that he had only one year of production and basically came out of nowhere. He skyrocketed himself up boards by being an athletic freak. That’s not my type of player. I want consistent, proven production over potential.
Coples is different. My concern with him is that his motor is in question. For a first round pick, you shouldn’t even have to be discussing something like effort. It should be a given.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 16, 2012 10:25 AM CST reply actions
A-greed
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by StPrattrick on Feb 16, 2012 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
Re:
For a first round pick, you shouldn’t even have to be discussing something like effort. It should be a given.
Yup. 1st round picks are far to valuable to be taking this kind or risk…especially for a team like the Titans that don’t have the luxury of missing on a high pick.
I don’t mind taking a flyer on a guy with huge upside. I just think those picks are better saved for rounds 4 and later.
it’s not that they’re the same player, it’s that they both seem to have one or two (in my mind) fixable problems associated with them that people tend to focus in on.
we're gonna skate to one song and one song only.
How exactly do you fix motor?
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 16, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
I dunno, ask Terrence Cody. it varies from player to player, but in this case he showed up, lost a bunch of weight, and improved on his decent rookie year, somebody got that guy motivated.
we're gonna skate to one song and one song only.
The Terrence Cody listed as 349 lbs on NFL.com?
You can’t fix motor. You can temporarily mask it, like Haynesworth in a contract year. But if the player doesn’t eat, sleep and breath football, it’ll bite you. With all due respect, you seem to have this vision that a big contract or someone screaming at you is going to motivate the player suddenly and I vehemently disagree with that. If Coples wasn’t motivated in what was the biggest audition of his life, that’s a major red flag.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 16, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Cody was actually close to 400 lbs at one point.
So ya he lost a lot of weight.
by -Erock on Feb 16, 2012 1:25 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
losing 40 pounds of water weight by cutting back to only 30 big macs a week isn't really impressive
He had HUGE amounts of lazy, baby fat …. so just going into the NFL and having to practice every day and work out probably got him “down” to 349.
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Feb 16, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
On the with a first round pick you shouldn't be discussing motor thing...
I completely agree. You never know what motivates a particular player. If he comes in and doesn’t get his act together, he turns into a bust, and that could really hurt the team.
We’re at a critical stage in building this team for long term success. We’re on the way up and maybe even a bit ahead of schedule thanks to last year’s draft, but we still have some building to do. I think we could miss on a few high draft picks and find ourselves stringing together 7, 8, and 9 win seasons, or we can add some key pieces and turn into a really good team for a long time.
Actually, that’s kind of why I’d like to see the team take a franchise interior lineman with the first pick, haha.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Feb 16, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
One thing about Motor players is that if you are rotating them surely you just put them in when they are going and then bring em out when they arent
I watch the Music City Miracle every time I visit MCM just because I can
Money could just as easily cause him to be less motivated.
I don’t think you can just assume that once hes getting paid he will be more motivated to play.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Feb 16, 2012 10:37 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
we're gonna skate to one song and one song only.
let's speculate more on rounds 3-7
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Feb 16, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
"All This Quentin Coples Bashing"
Where? I haven’t seen any.
[disclaimer: this poster has no idea what the hell he's talking about.]
Jake Locker > Peyton Manning
by fanoftheunderdogs on Feb 16, 2012 5:39 PM CST reply actions

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