The Puzzling Fascination with Jeff Fisher Update
by Jimmy on Jan 7, 2012 10:09 AM CST
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There are probably some of you out there who couldn't care less about Jeff Fisher and where he ends up coaching next year. I pretty much fall into that camp, but I cannot help but be fascinated by all of the attention he is getting. Sure, there are a lot of things he does well as a football coach, but he is getting wooed by NFL teams like he is the second coming of Vince Lombardi.
There is one report out there that Fisher is "on the verge" of taking the job in St. Louis. That report leads PFT to the pretty obvious conclusion that the Dolphins will make on last push to change his mind, because again, we are talking about a proven Super Bowl winning coach here, right?
John McClain said on 104.5 here in Nashville the other day that he would be really surprised if it were Miami. He has a pretty good relationship with Fisher, so my guess would be he knows a lot more behind the scenes than most people do.
The reason all of this really matter to us is because he is probably going to go after a couple of people from the Titans' staff for his own. The first would probably be Dowell Loggains. Keep in mind that Fisher said Loggains was going to call the plays in 2010 when Mike Heimerdinger was initially diagnosed with cancer. It never came to that because Dinger was a trooper, but that shows you how much respect Fisher has for Loggains (who is also drawing attention from the Bears according to Jim Wyatt).
There is also a reasonable chance that he could try and poach Dave McGinnis to be his defensive coordinator, and/or Alan Lowry for special teams. It would be interesting to see with Lowry. He has been with this organization for a very long time, but he was at the center of the deterioration of Fisher's relationship with Floyd Reese. The story is that Fisher went to Houston and convinced Bud Adams to keep Lowry after Reese had decided to fire him.
We should have a lot of these answers by this time next week.
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via J-Mac twitter, good job Nashville.
“It’s amazing how people in Nashville or so much nicer than NY/NJ people. Nonetheless it feels good to be home (J-Mac)”
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by Titans_Firefighter on Jan 7, 2012 10:13 AM CST reply actions
Hey, im from NJ
And its probably true
On Hiatus
by Dagger22 on Jan 7, 2012 12:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Marsha, Marsha, Marsha well except it's Fisher
Just not much to pick from this year. He has experience as a HC. I thought he did a pretty good job at TN. He handled a move from Houston to Memphis to Nashville. Not an easy thing. I know only 1 super bowl appearance, and it’s hard to beat Manning in the AFC South.
I would be more concerned about him wanting to run everything. I am not sure how much he was involved with the drafts but I bet he was in the middle of things. I thought we could have drafted better in recent years.
Titan and Ole Miss fan that curses during games... It's not necessary but it happens.
Poach + McGinnis doesn't compute
Interweb DVOA: +100%
Epistemological Police
Member of CJ Sucks Club. Brah is bad.
yeah, Fisher can help himself to all the mcginnis he wants
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Jan 7, 2012 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
Hey MIA/STL,
Good luck – if you land Fisher, you will get the greatest coach in NFL history to post a winning season in less than 36% of his seasons and to never win a Super Bowl.
^Deceptive phrasing of stats to make it support his point.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
How is it deceptive?
He had winning seasons in 6 of his 17 years coaching. He never won a Super Bowl. I didn’t even mention that 4 days ago marked the 8 year anniversary of his last playoff victory! All the Jeff Fisher enthusiasts are just out of their minds. He is an average coach at best.
Because I could also re-phrase it that he only had losing seasons 31% of the time.
You are just blinded by your hate.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
OK...
and he had a ton of average seasons thrown in there as well. The splits are right around 1/3 each: 35% winning, 35% losing, 29% .500. No matter how you spin it, great coaches are not average/below average 64% of the time.
Not to mention the fact that he coached a total of 1 complete season in his entire career (99). His teams would either start off so piss poor that they couldn’t make the playoffs, or melt down at the end of the season. We got sick of it. Ergo, he is no longer here. Are you happy with having not seen a playoff victory in over 8 years? Because I’m not.
I'm not going to argue with you anymore.
The fact that you think he coached “1 complete season” is ridiculous.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
"1 complete season" and everything leading up to that conclusion
are the arguments of a person who is cherry picking 1 stat and making it say what he wants it to say. There are a ton of other factors involved.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 7, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
7 straight seasons without a playoff win.
Find me one great coach (other than Jeff Fisher) who has that line on his resume.
I was on the Jeff-Fisher-needs-to-go team.
And I’m sick of this debate, honestly. I just think there are other factors at play than pure winning percentage, including mediocre talent at times, the franchise being handcuffed by Vince Young, the Ravens being dirty and intentionally hurting CJ, etc.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 7, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Winning season 36% of the time
Losing season 31% of the time…take those two stats together and all it says is that Fisher is an average coach
by shawneriksmith on Jan 7, 2012 12:10 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
I know everyone loves to hate on Fisher
but I have a feeling he will do very well in his second go around.
Interweb DVOA: +100%
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Member of CJ Sucks Club. Brah is bad.
by rothbard on Jan 7, 2012 10:47 AM CST via mobile reply actions
If he goes to St Louis, he's going to be really, really good.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Not only do I think that's where he'll end up, but it's where I'd like to see him.
I’d like to see how he coaches the game with Bradford. Will it be Fisherball and field goals? Or will he open things up?
The Force is with you, young SkyLocker, but you are not a Jedi... yet!
My money is on a much more balanced offense.
He is going to have much more trust in Bradford than he did in Young and Collins.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
yada yada yada
you didn’t even watch Fisher for most of his tenure in Tennessee
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Jan 7, 2012 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
10 of 16+ seasons.
Not all that hard to look back in history either.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
In three of the last five years of his tenure, Fisher had streaks of losing 5+ games.
He is a mediocre coach who had a chance at greatness. Maybe he will get another chance, but it will take one hell of a offensive coordinator to break Fisher’s stubbornness.
"I can name 31 other starting running backs that would have made that play" 104.5 the zone
Trust in Bradford?
Lol, I hope whoever the coach is trusts Bradford, I’d like to see the Rams in the basement for a few more years.
Still bitter about Mike Jones
I think so, too.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 7, 2012 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Meh. I don't really care
I am just glad he’s not here anymore.
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The best sig ever, reason 1, reason 2, reason 3, reason 4 Just got even Better, 0ne L0ve To Ben Breedl0ve
by Ice0ne (CAJ) on Jan 7, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
3rd'd
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Jan 7, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
He can have Lowry.
We had way too many penalties on special teams this year.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 10:54 AM CST reply actions
Lowry is one of the best special teams coordinators out there. I don't want to see him go.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
I agree. Our special team play has been good.
I wouldn’t want to lose him. Especially for one year with a larger number of penalties.
The Force is with you, young SkyLocker, but you are not a Jedi... yet!
i wouldn't want him to go either
The best sig ever, reason 1, reason 2, reason 3, reason 4 Just got even Better, 0ne L0ve To Ben Breedl0ve
by Ice0ne (CAJ) on Jan 7, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Why do our special teams suck then?
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
I was unaware our special teams suck.
FO has our special teams ranked THIRD, and our weighted DVOA as FIRST. We also feature an outstanding kicker, punter and above average returner.
We suck?
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
Thanks for posting that. I was trying to find out special teams rankings.
We may have had several penalties last year, but we weren’t being gashed for punt/kickoff yards, and Mariani was doing a pretty good job of getting us yardage.
The Force is with you, young SkyLocker, but you are not a Jedi... yet!
Our kicker and punter are fine.
We can’t get through a return without getting a penalty. Mariani isn’t really above average.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Two things on penalties:
1) Even with all the penalties we must be doing something right if we’re ranked third.
2) I don’t hold Lowry fully responsible for penalties. He’s proven himself as a special teams ace. Unless he got dumber as the season went on, its more likely that the penalties are a result of undisciplined play from the players. He can only teach so much, on Sundays he’s not the one drawing the flags.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
I suppose so. You would think he could discipline those players though.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
I'd be interested to see our number of penalties on ST
versus the rest of the league. It seems like with every game you watch, there’s a flag on nearly every punt return.
Either way, our kickers were both spectacular, our coverage was pretty much always good, and Mariani might not be explosive like a Devin Hester, but he’s very consistent and gets the job done. No complaints from me.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 7, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
As far as ST penalties, we lead the league with 29.
Kuharsky has a breakdown of ST penalties here.
The Force is with you, young SkyLocker, but you are not a Jedi... yet!
Much appreciated, sir.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 7, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
Is that a serious question?
Our special teams were really good the last couple of years.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 7, 2012 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
I know very litte about Loggains, but Kuharsky called him an up-and-coming coach.
If that’s the case, Fisher may take a run at him as OC. I don’t want to lose him either, but hopefully Palmer has someone in mind.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 11:28 AM CST reply actions
You hate to lose a QB coach so early in Locker's development.
But I’ve always imagined Palmer spending a significant amount of time with the QBs and being their primary coach, anyway. I don’t know how true that is. I guess the other side is, you hate to lose a good football mind when it comes to scheming and putting together game plans.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 7, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
This is the only reason why I don't want to lose him:
You hate to lose a QB coach so early in Locker’s development.
Now I can already see Hal rolling his eyes and saying we’re scared that every little thing will break our new QB, but that’s not what I’m getting at. I just think its better to have the continuity there.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
Who was it that was arguing that a QB coach has nothing to do with QB development?
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
Ugh. Overexaggeration of an argument.
Palmer as QB coach with Eli—→Gilbride top offensive mind there—→Gilbride receives the most credit for the offense, Palmer secondary credit.
Loggains as QB coach with Locker—> Palmer top offensive mind here—>Palmer receives the most credit for the offense, Loggains secondary credit.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Well since you said Palmer wasn't that important with Eli, then clearly Loggains isn't that important with Locker.
Since its all about the OC. You can’t refuse to give Palmer credit and then be worried about losing Loggains.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
"Loggains isn't that important with Locker."
I don’t think he’s that important, I just think its good to have continuity with the staff working with him. Don’t see what’s so shocking.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Just trying to understand why it suddenly matters when its your side of the argument.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, because I've maintained all along that Palmer had nothing to do with Eli's development.
/rolls eyes
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
That was pretty much the argument you made when we had that little debate.
No credit for Eli, full blame for Carr.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
You're changing the argument.
As QB coach, Palmer receives less credit/blame for the QB and offense.
As OC, Palmer receives more credit/blame for the QB and offense.
Still don’t see what’s so stunning about this. Heaven forbid I put more emphasis on the top offensive guy in charge than the guy second in command.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
You don't think that on some staffs the QB coach might focus more on developing the QB than the OC?
Seeing as that is the only job for the QB coach?
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
I think you're underplaying the effect Kevin Gilbride as the OC had on Eli Manning.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
And i think you are overestimating it.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
This isn't a response to you. Just an interjection into the conversation.
It’s not as simple as “OC always gets the credit, QB coach gets secondary credit.”
It’s different for each staff. Was Palmer the “QB guy” when he was Eli’s QB coach? Maybe. If so, he probably spent his time developing the QBs. Is it possible that he still considers himself a QB expert, so he continues to work with QBs despite the fact that he’s now the OC? Maybe.
Teams don’t have specific job descriptions for each coach. Coaches who have a particular strength will exercise it.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 7, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
regardless of your personal thoughts
he’s definitely the best coach available at this point for teams in need, so it’s no wonder that he’s getting so much attention.
MCM Survival League 2011 co-champion.
he has the same thing going for him
that bush and clinton have…
no matter how bad they screwed up (people wanted to run them out on a rail), in a few short years they are now “elder statesman”
"you should have seen the look on my fathers face when I told him I wanted to be a ventriloquist"
by stetix01 on Jan 7, 2012 1:14 PM CST reply actions
OT: Oh well, dream's dead.
mortreport Chris Mortensen
#Colts @JimIrsay, the poetry man, won’t pass on Andrew Luck. Dad dealt Elway in ‘83, 15 yrs later, Jim took Manning & now it’s his Luck.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 1:16 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Maybe Luck will pull a Glen Coffee on the Colts
For the Jake of argument ...
by BythePowerofMunchak! on Jan 7, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
He knows he would get skewered for doing anything other than take Luck.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
I contend that Luck will not have the impact you're expecting.
That defense has no one outside of two guys, the offense has been built around Manning and he has made them look much better than they really are.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 7, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
I hope so.
I don’t expect much out of him his first year but later on, yes, I think he’s going to be really good. I hope that maybe Stanford has hidden some of his inefficiencies by having great players around him, and that the blackhole of talent on the Colts roster screws him up.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
Not only did he have great talent.
But he seemed to run a more conservative/safer passing offense than Peyton in college.
That’s not to say he can’t be great—he can. I hope he’s not, but if anything will help, it’ll be learning behind Peyton for a couple of years, should they go down that path.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 7, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
I just think for all the "Second Coming" talk...he's not.
Stanford has some good talent around him in a great line, running game and defense. I think he’ll be good but not live up to this hype and be able to single-handedly BE a team like Manning. And for the Colts that’s really the only hope they have for the foreseeable future with all their holes.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 7, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Luck sure didn't look that impressive in the Fiesta bowl.
He can audible, i guess, but he threw 5 yards down the field otherwise.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Jan 7, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
Fisher is no longer the coach, Munch is.
So I dont care about how many losing seasons he has. Munch has a winning season in his first season and thats all I care about.
On Hiatus
by Dagger22 on Jan 7, 2012 2:10 PM CST via mobile reply actions
He missed the playoffs.
That’s 0-1 in that regard :)
im ok with us letting go of Dowwell Loggains . . .
Because is name sounds REAL dorky. I can’t see any of our players relating to a guy with suck a dorky name.
by CJ2K shrine on Jan 7, 2012 3:20 PM CST via mobile reply actions
This is a better game than I thought.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 7, 2012 4:22 PM CST reply actions
Eh
Incoherent thoughts:
Yes, have moved on from Fisher.
Fascination comes from the fact that any NFL head coaching vacancy brings media interest. In this case, two teams are wanting the same guy — that’s interesting.
In all, Fisher is a fine, experienced football coach. I’ll still pull for him (more if he’s in the NFC).
But Munch (haha, “But Munch”) is our football coach now.
So Fisher is going to coach the team that he lost the superbowl to?
Irony?
[disclaimer: this poster has no idea what the hell he's talking about.]
I has a sad. Its name is Eugene Amano.
by fanoftheunderdogs on Jan 7, 2012 8:10 PM CST reply actions
Update
Fisher is back in St. Louis today for a 2nd interview so he can see the facilities and talk with Sam Bradford.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 8, 2012 10:15 AM CST reply actions
Unforgivable!!
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And...
@AdamSchefter: Saints DC Gregg Williams in last year of contract. Many around lg believe he’ll leave New Orleans, reunite w/Jeff Fisher.
If St Louis lands Fisher, one of our guys as GM, AND Gregg Williams, that is absolutely amazing for them.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 8, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
That would be insane...
I don’t see it happening though.
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Wow, that would be great for Fisher.
His OC hire will be as big or bigger than the DC hire, though.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 8, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
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