Mel Kiper Regrades the Titans 2011 Draft
by Jimmy on Jan 12, 2012 1:20 PM CST
in NFL Draft
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Mel Kiper has regraded every team's draft from 2011 (In$ider). You might remember that he initially gave the Titans a C, and mainly just because he does not like Jake Locker at 8.
Aside 1: I still don't understand how he is not OK at 8 but OK in the 20s, but that is neither here nor there.
Aside 2: This is the same guy who thought Jimmy Clausen was the best quarterback in the 2010 draft.
Anyway, he has regraded the draft and now gives the Titans a B:
The pick of Jake Locker was one I described then as the first true shock of the draft, even more so than the deal that got Atlanta in position to take Julio Jones. Remember, Locker has an immense skill set but still faces big questions about how accurate he'll be, and I thought he easily could have fallen into the 20s. On that front, although I couldn't fault the Titans for targeting a need, the value proposition wasn't in their favor. However, their plan for Locker has been superb; adding Matt Hasselbeck as a starter and mentor was a great idea. Elsewhere, the Titans got some really good early returns and value. Jurrell Casey and Karl Klug, picked in the third and fifth rounds, respectively, have been very good (Klug really got after quarterbacks), as has Akeem Ayers, which wasn't much of a surprise. It's hard to raise the grade too much until we know whether Locker is indeed the future, but, a year out, it looks as if the Titans planned and scouted well overall.
It is a crime against humanity that he does not even mention Colin McCarthy.
(h/t to oshoney for posting this in the FanPosts as well)
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F you Kiper
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I don't even think he watched any Titans games to write this review...
What about TommieC? or how Locker looked when he did come in? Ayers was meh. but something to build on.
until we know whether Locker is indeed the future
What the… ? What else would he be? The next Billy Volek?
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He's just upset his boy Gabbert didn't have a good year.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
Disclaimer: I can't remember what his views on Gabbert were, but likely viewed him highly for no reason like everyone else.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
Correction:
Everyone likely viewed him highly based on the reasoning that Kiper viewed him highly for no reason.
"Suffice to say, I don’t think throwing [Blaine] Gabbert in there with a lack of legit passing targets given his developmental needs was a great idea. I still think Gabbert has a shot because he has a lot of good physical tools and can be very accurate, but I hope the experience of this season is something he grows from and isn’t a developmental setback. Elsewhere, there isn’t much."
- Kiper
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Actually, Kiper had Gabbert going first overall - bhahahahahaha
Carolina Panthers
Record: 2-14
* Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri
There’s a thought process here that goes beyond need. For one, Gabbert impressed in Indy, and his pro day next week will help determine if he has the potential to land here. Two, I expect any labor deal that gets worked out will create a rookie salary scale that limits the massive bonuses for top picks, making it easier to trade up and down in the draft, which has become increasingly difficult. So it makes sense for Carolina to project that it could take one of the top quarterbacks and open up the trade options, in essence, saying, “To guarantee a shot at the one you prefer, talk to us.” Lastly, while I still believe in Jimmy Clausen’s chances given his youth, Ron Rivera could not be blamed for targeting his own vision of a franchise quarterback with a pick here or via free agency. It’s a leverage position now, but also a potential pick. Part of it is up to Gabbert.
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And this is the problem with couch draft "experts".
Placing a lot of emphasis on Combine and workout numbers. Superhorn’s deconstruction of Gabbert’s college career last year should’ve been required reading by all these guys trumping him simply cause he’s 6’5 with a golden mane.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
He also said Newton isn't a QB "you want starting anytime soon"
wow…
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...bet he wants that one back.
Mel Kiper is just another loudmouth for EAPN. I don’t take what any of these guys say as gospel, but give me Mayock any day.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
This last off-season during the draft made me appreciate how much work our website does for correct draft perspective
even with no one actually being there live to see it.
Instead you got dudes like Kiper who get paid boat loads, are there live, and give us garbage in return to go off of.
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Here you go;
Watch Mel Kiper talk about Jake Locker, then get Shit on by Jon Gruden
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by StPrattrick on Jan 12, 2012 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Great link. Love Gruden's comments.
Sink or swim, I love rooting for Locker. He’s the guy that I can be proud to have as a leader of this football team. I can’t say with certainty that he’ll pan out, but I know that he’s going to do everything in his power to get better every day. That’s not common any more.
Further, I don’t think anyone in this draft throws a prettier ball than Locker. Footwork gets sloppy at times, but he’s so sound from the waist up. People are enamored with Cam Newton. I think Locker ends up as the better long term pro.
I agree, he's a QB I am going to be rooting for until the end
and he hasn’t even started an NFL game yet.
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Great video.
Watch it for the cut to the still-on-the-board Gabbert at the very last second. He looks like he just smelled a fart: his future career.
I always go first half - coffee, second half - beer, because In LA, the games start at 10:00 a.m.
Bahahaha I noticed that
He’s doing his best Brady Quinn impression.
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Mayock pretty good IMO
BTW he had McCarthy second among ILB’s for the 2011 draft and he was criticized a bit for it.
by infinitystealth on Jan 12, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
You can´t nail every analisys.
"He's an amazing talent. He's probably the most explosive back since Marshall Faulk and Barry Sanders." - Eddie George, about CJ.
You can nail the layups.
Any reasonable QB evaluator could see that coming from a mile away. It’s astonishing that someone could get that wrong, and get paid while doing so. Draft “analysts” are virtually all lazy and follow a herd mentality.
I don´t know. QB´s never seem to be quite a layup.
Cam, for instance, was a risky pick imo. Ended up playing better than everyone thought.
"He's an amazing talent. He's probably the most explosive back since Marshall Faulk and Barry Sanders." - Eddie George, about CJ.
On the other hand, you got Brady.
Sixth round pick and was to play career backup but ended up being one of the best QBs in our generation. Too much uncertainty with drafting a QB.
by infinitystealth on Jan 12, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I got your point.
Anyway.. I´m too happy he didn´t end up in Tennessee.
"He's an amazing talent. He's probably the most explosive back since Marshall Faulk and Barry Sanders." - Eddie George, about CJ.
Come on, if even we knew Gabbert would be garbage
how do these dudes that get paid to research this stuff think he’s worthy of the 1st overall pick?? Not even Top 10, the first f-ing pick in the draft!
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6'5, golden mane of hair.
Herd mentality, and I think in the wake of Luck deciding to go back to Stanford someone had to fill that role of being built like a prototypical passer…difference being Luck actually had the production to back it.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Aw that's disappointing, I didn't know that.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
Yup.
“(Gabbert) reminds me of the guys that have done well the last couple of years,” Mayock said. “He reminds me of Bradford. He reminds me of Matt Ryan.” Many dwell on the fact that Gabbert wasn’t as productive in college as you’d expect a top prospect to be, but some players underwhelm in college before putting it together in the NFL. The key is that Gabbert has the requisite tools.
You could sub in "Jake Locker" for that exact same description.
Production-wise his college numbers don’t wow you, but he obviously had the tools. That seems like a formulaic response by Mayock to me.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
I dont' think the last part was him commenting. Just the part in quotes.
If you click through the link and to the article, he goes on to say…
How could anyone watch this guys tape and think “Bradford…Ryan”?!? Anyone seriously evaluating these things can see that this kid wasn’t worth a 1st round pick.
"So you’ve got to take with a grain of salt some of the poor performances of Gabbert. And I’ve probably seen at least seven of his games purely on tape. He reminds me of the guys that have done well the last couple of years. He reminds me of Bradford. He reminds me of Matt Ryan.’’
It really is shocking and baffling. I guess if a kid throws well in shorts then everything else is forgiven? That’s all I can assume, because the tape is garbage. Part of me thinks these GMs see a guy throw well in shorts, with an awful career tape, and are arrogant enough to think they can “fix” them. It almost never works out that way.
Has to be.
There’s way too big an emphasis on “measureables” these days instead of looking at in-game footage and how they react and perform in the moment. Does the kid run a fast 40? Is his vertical awesome? Can he launch it 80 yards in shorts with no pass rush? TOP TEN!!!!111
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
= Tebow.
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One thing is certain. If a guy throws deep bombs while on his knees, it´s a top prospect!
"He's an amazing talent. He's probably the most explosive back since Marshall Faulk and Barry Sanders." - Eddie George, about CJ.
PURPLE DRANK!
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DID HE?
Did not know that. At least Rob Rang did not say that… did he?
by infinitystealth on Jan 12, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know what he said about Gabbert...but he loved our draft.
And in his immediate analysis was eerily accurate in how some of these guys would perform.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
My friends were telling me that Wes Bunting from NFP is one of the few experts that knows what he is doing.
I have yet to check out any of his stuff though.
by infinitystealth on Jan 12, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
Probably doesn’t want to admit he is wrong.
BUT I am willing to give Gabbert another year before I pass any final judgement on him. So far, he has been a huge bust, but who knows what can happen in one year.
by infinitystealth on Jan 12, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Gabbert is horrible
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Question: Do you see any positives in Gabbert's game tape?
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This is pretty much the groupthink of BCC...
Yes, there is room for improvement with Gabbert…but it’s likely to be minimal at best based on what we’ve seen this year. If you go over there there is every excuse in the book, “The line sucks…WR/TE suck…he’s only a rookie (valid)…coaching sucked…”. Even with a rookie performing poorly, you expect to see signs of improvement and flashes of potential…I saw none of that from Gabbert.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
oh wow... I had never thought of it like that!
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What, pray tell, do you see that shows he could do it?
When he played the Titans I saw him escaping phantom pressure and getting rid of it too soon. Even when he had time he was skittish and overthrew/underthrew some balls. And that’s with our defensive line being incredibly inconsistent in getting pressure and not getting nearly as many sacks as we should’ve on him.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
All of the things that you mentioned
can be corrected. He has the mindset to correct them. I dont think he is going to be a sure thing, but i definitely see potential
If he was drafted in the 4th or 5th round, would you see that same potential?
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Id say we got a very talented qb
in a late round, who needs to correct a few correctable things to be good
Hey Pratt, remember when we said this about the Velociraffe?
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
Ahhhh man, we were filled with so much hope.
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I actually think McCown looked like a better QB then Gabbert
bottom line… you guys never should have gotten rid of Garrad IMO
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That's where we disagree.
I don’t think you can necessarily “teach” pocket presence. You can try to scheme to cover up for deficiencies, but it’s the David Carr Effect. If he has no awareness now, what makes you think he can be coached out of that? I would say starting his rookie year and performing like this has done irreparable damage to him. Our own Jake Locker showed pretty good awareness for a rookie who didn’t get starter’s reps much at all during practice, then came in and showed several times that he can stay in the pocket until the last second and make the throws and reads.
I’m not completely shooting Gabbert down here, but I just saw none of that “spark” that so many other rookie QBs showed this season, nor did I see progression through the season.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
Yes compared to the other rookies he was bad.
But every player has their own path in development. We all thought VY was the man after year 1. Only time will tell if you can teach pocket pressence
I think pocket presence is one of the most undervalued traits of a QB
It takes a real man to stand stationary while 3-6 250-350lb men come barreling down on you giving you less than a foot to throw a football to a target moving as fast as he can with defenders all around him and put that ball right on the money.
Pocket presence is what separates the average QBs from the great QBs (think Kyle Boller versus Aaron Rodgers). Nearly all the QBs coming out of college have good arms and can be accurate at a bare minimum…but only a few are man enough to stand in that pocket and deliver a ball on a strike play in play out.
by shawneriksmith on Jan 12, 2012 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
but seriously though...
Gabbert is horrible.
by -Erock on Jan 13, 2012 3:34 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
It's because he's too busy working on that ridiculous haircut of his
Than actually taking the time to provide a sound analysis. Kiper’s the type of guy that loves to listen to himself talk and smell his own farts.
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by TitanNDCClothing on Jan 12, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
If you can't tell
I can’t stand that guy
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by TitanNDCClothing on Jan 12, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Who doesn't like to smell their own farts?
I always go first half - coffee, second half - beer, because In LA, the games start at 10:00 a.m.
Touche salesman
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by TitanNDCClothing on Jan 12, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think the statement is that controversial.
None of us know how things will shake out with Locker (or any of the 2011 QB draft picks). Even though I’m encouraged by his development, it’s insanely difficult to find a future elite NFL QB. I think saying that we “don’t know” right now is reasonable.
Couldn't you say that about nearly any rookie QB coming out of the draft and after their first year?
Why is he paid to be an “expert” when he’s only Capt. Obvious?
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I think the point is that we didn't see enough of Locker to give him a grade.
In that sense, I don’t really take issue with his statement.
On the other hand, I think that draft grades just one year later are totally ridiculous. This is purely for entertainment value and cannot be taken seriously.
This;
I think that draft grades just one year later are totally ridiculous.
it really doesn’t matter, Kiper is just an idiot. You do a better job of pre-draft analysis then anything I’ve ever seen from him.
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You've paid to see Kiper's stuff?!
I have never given a dime to that Insider thing that most his stuff is behind.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
Hell no, I don't pay for anything on the internet...
eeeeerrrrrrrr……?
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Real question.
Does MCM pay you to agitate and flood the threads with comments?
"He's an amazing talent. He's probably the most explosive back since Marshall Faulk and Barry Sanders." - Eddie George, about CJ.
Real Answer: I've made millions off my comments and MCM
I am going to write a book.
And you will read it.
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Will I like it?
"He's an amazing talent. He's probably the most explosive back since Marshall Faulk and Barry Sanders." - Eddie George, about CJ.
You'll hate it.
but you won’t be able to put it down.
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Also, will you finally reveal all the usernames you sign in with?
I mean, not only rothbard, but all the other ones.
"He's an amazing talent. He's probably the most explosive back since Marshall Faulk and Barry Sanders." - Eddie George, about CJ.
ONLY IF YOU BUY THE BOOK!!!!!!11<<<
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Nope, that's like Deep Throat revealing himse...wait...
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
The book will never be published
/somethings-must-stay-buried
Interweb DVOA: +100%
Epistemological Police
Member of CJ Sucks Club. Brah is bad.
by rothbard on Jan 12, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"Dead is dead!"
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That's from a movie/tv show right? Totally spacing on what it's from.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
Pet Cemetery/ South Park
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Also an episode title from LOST, that's what I was thinking of.
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by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 13, 2012 12:19 AM CST up reply actions
Ah! That's right! Good eye
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But you said that for free, right?
He is paid to do that.. it´s a lot worse. lol
"He's an amazing talent. He's probably the most explosive back since Marshall Faulk and Barry Sanders." - Eddie George, about CJ.
Truth
JPP had all the signs of being a bust though, there is no sure-fire formula to this
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I do think JPP is helped by the system that he is in
He is surrounded by a pretty solid defensive line with a good DC (Fewell) who lets his DEs pin their ears back and rush the passer…JPP landed in the perfect situation for a guy with his athleticism and size.
by shawneriksmith on Jan 12, 2012 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
IDIOT!
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so its too early to give grades after one year
but not early to grade players after one year, when grading a draft is just taking the average grade of the individual. Way to contradict yourself
So Kiper gave the Jags draft a D
meaning somewhere in there the Average player was graded out as a D… the lowest you can go is obviously F. I would bet real dollars Gabbert graded out as an F = he is terrible.
Even if he somehow managed to add up to a D in from the football chart-that-doesn’t-really-matter… he is still terrible.
soooo…..?
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this isn't about Kiper's grades, i wasn't aware of his grade
I dont follow Kiper. Im saying that you say its too early to grade a draft after one year but its fine to grade a player after one year. it is essentially the same thing. If its too early to give draft grades, its too early to grade a single player. You cant have it both ways.
If you are taking my comments to heart, then I don't really think you understand what a blog is...
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Im simply saying if you
find draft grades after one year ridiculous, then why would say a player is bad or good after one year and will never change that.
The "science" hiding the "experts" is ridiculous.
but to look at a player and see all the things he is doing wrong and thinking he could turn it around, I do not think that is possible with Gabbert.
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Burgundy's pretty much spelled it out for you above.
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weird, but aaron rodgers
has definitely improved his pocket presence over the years which has made him better. Therefore you can get better at it. Which means Gabbert can improve his one glaring flaw
You are comparing Aaron Rodgers to Gabbert?!
… I am done. I can’t… no, done.
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Actually, I find most of BCC has overrated Gabbert a lot.
There was someone yesterday that said he had more talent than Matt Ryan.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 12, 2012 5:06 PM CST up reply actions
I'd probably be lying to myself too if my favorite team drafted that bum...
///Vunce’d
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not comparing him to rodgers
just using an example where a qb improved his pocket presence. Stop putting words in my mouth
Aaron Rodgers never looked like a deer in head lights
stop trying to act like you didn’t just compare the two.
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how is using an example of a player
improving a trait comparing them. Im simply saying improving pocket presence can be done because it has been done in the past
AARON RODGERS NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH POCKET PRESENCE!!!
WTF seriously?!
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only problem is, he's not.
He still sucks.
by -Erock on Jan 13, 2012 3:38 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
if you think Gabbert has only one glaring flaw you're in serious denial.
All of his flaws are glaring.
by -Erock on Jan 13, 2012 3:37 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
it was never too early to realize Clausen was a bust.
Same can be said with Gabbert. Right system and maybe he’s the next Chad Henne. Nothing more.
by -Erock on Jan 13, 2012 3:36 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
There should be a ranking of the least worthless "experts" out there.
So that theses douches could be compared to their peers. My guess is Kiper would not be nowhere near the top of this fake rankings.
"He's an amazing talent. He's probably the most explosive back since Marshall Faulk and Barry Sanders." - Eddie George, about CJ.
That's the problem with the whole thing.
No one wants to be controversial. They all stick to the same “Big Board” and then make small tweaks to make themselves stand out. This way when people call them out, they can just point to their peers for justification.
Honest question: What did happen to Clausen?
From what I can recall, he was so highly touted out of high school and out of college. I know he had some maturity issues but still, he was deemed talented by A LOT of experts. He did so horribly with the Panthers that I just wonder where his `talents` went. Or did he just not have what it takes to be a good NFL player?
by infinitystealth on Jan 12, 2012 1:35 PM CST reply actions
This
he had some maturity issues
I hear he is horrible to work with.
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he never looked like a good prospect
Head too far up his own ass.
by -Erock on Jan 12, 2012 5:47 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I hate Kiper, but I agree with his grade.
Locker still hasn´t played, so we got little contribution from our 1st rounder.
Ayers is a starter, but nowhere near the playmaker he is supposed to become.
Having said that, I don´t think you can earn more than a “B” with that kind of production from the two higher picks. The rest of the draft was very solid, though.
"He's an amazing talent. He's probably the most explosive back since Marshall Faulk and Barry Sanders." - Eddie George, about CJ.
Meh, these grades are pretty meaningless and mere specualtion
They don’t mean anything more than the entertainment that comes from speculating about them.
Give it 3-4 years.
colin mccarthy and karl klug were my favorite players this year.
Titans future is looking bright. A+
by CJ2K shrine on Jan 12, 2012 2:22 PM CST via mobile reply actions
as woody allen once said:
those who can: do
those who cant: teach
and those who cant teach: teach Gym
i would add
those who cant teach Gym are analysts
"you should have seen the look on my fathers face when I told him I wanted to be a ventriloquist"
by stetix01 on Jan 12, 2012 3:41 PM CST reply actions
I don't think Ayers is ever going to rack up sacks or INT's...
OLB in a 4-3 scheme isn’t typically a ‘play-making’ position. They don’t blitz often, & thier primarily covering RB’s in the flats or running with TE’s in space.I think he will turn out to be similar to K-BULL, not quite on his level but a solid pro. I think Ayers is a guy that we can depend on going forward. I think he will have a quiet career as far as INT’s & sacks are concerned, but I think he will fly sideline to sideline, be solid in pass coverage, and be a sure tackler… (Bulluck’s MO)
I would counter that with Von Miller.
Banned from Stampede Blue for comments made on MCM. Yes, I am a champion.
by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 12, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
Von Miller was able to rush the passer a lot more than Ayers was
Von Miller was essentially used as a second DE opposite Dumervil on many passing downs…Ayers was used more in coverage.
However, I do think Von Miller is a better LB than Ayers, but I think Ayers is a solid player who will only get better as he fits into Gray’s system.
by shawneriksmith on Jan 12, 2012 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
That's why I said 'typically', there are exceptions to the rule...
I haven’t paid much attention to how Denver uses Miller, I don’t even know if he plays Sam or Will… I’m sure he was sent after the QB a lot more than A.A. was though. Which is smart because that’s where he makes the most impact. I don’t think Ayers and Miller are comparable because while they may play a similar position they aren’t asked to do the same things… That’s why I compared him to Bulluck. He was a 4-3 OLB who was very underrated in his prime years simply because he didn’t have a bunch of sacks. Well that’s not what he was assigned to do. He was assigned to fly sideline to sideline coming down hill to stop the run, or he was dropping back in coverage…
Mel Miper + Merryl Hoge = ubertarded
These guys both suck but both buy their own bullshit more than anyone in sports.
by -Erock on Jan 12, 2012 4:48 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
Kiper really is a fat check cashing piece of shit
He looked all agressive in that video trying to act like he knows what he’s talking about, got spunked in the face by Gruden who I’m no fan of, but it was amusing watching him and Boomer basically be like “bitch, shut yo shit”
by TheHurtLockerShocker on Jan 12, 2012 10:04 PM CST reply actions
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