Tennessee Titans Daily Links: A Tinsy, Wincy Little Peek At The New Offense Edition
by August West on Mar 10, 2011 10:56 AM CST
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Jim Wyatt talked a little with Chris Palmer at Cam Newton's pro day, and the important part is his comments on the new offensive gameplan. Palmer says that the running game will largely stay the same, but the passing game will become more complex. Palmer is looking for Kenny Britt to make an impact similar to some memorable WRs Palmer has coached-up and developed before: Jimmy Smith in Jacksonville, Andre Johnson in Houston and Plaxico Burress in New York. It's a good read with some nice anecdotes and quotes sprinkled throughout, so I'd advise you to actually click on this one and take a minute to read it before commenting.
Matt Bowen unwittingly lays out the absolute worst case scenario for the Titans in the draft: Fairley, Bowers, Dareus, Newton, Miller, Green and Peterson all go in front of us. I'm really holding out hope that one of those teams does something stupid and one of those guys not-named-Newton falls to us.
How would you like to be a high-profile New England Patriot player who has to call Bill Bellicheat and tell him you're under investigation for shooting at two people at a house party? I'm guessing it's like a long distance version of this.
DeMaurice Smith continues to vow that the players will not agree to an 18 game season. I've gone back and forth on whether or not I would want an 18 game season, and I have to say that I'm still not sure either way. Of course, as a football fan, I want to see more football. However, I also want to see quality football, and I worry about how the extra injuries would effect the quality of play. That being said, I am much more in favor of an 18 game schedule if they add a second bye week for each team and extend the season further into February. The crappiest moments of the year are when the Titans' season is over and when the Super Bowl is finished, so anything that extends that without diminishing the product on the field is kosher with me.
Mike Florio is hearing that the gap between monetary demands of the players and owners has shrunk from $1 billion to $700 million. As absurd as it sounds, that's actually pretty solid progress considering that Florio is also hearing that both sides still willing to move (most likely in exchange for other concessions).
This might be one of the dumber ESPN Insider articles I've ever read. The basic premiss is so astoundingly flawed I'm shocked this thing even ran: "In 2010, 37.5 percent of all NFL throws were from the shotgun. ... The bottom line: Cam Newton keeps getting criticized as a quarterback who isn't familiar with the pro game. Meanwhile, the pro game is busy adjusting to what Newton is most familiar with. " The number of snaps he took or didn't take under center is just scratching the surface of why Cam, and Gabbert really, aren't familiar with the Pro Game by a long shot. While playing under center is a transition lots of guys have struggled to make in the NFL, it's the fact that Newton (and lots of guys in the spread) threw to an extremely limited number of routes. If you watched Auburn play, you had to have noticed that: his WRs were almost always really wide open so he wasn't throwing into those small windows you find in the NFL, lots of plays clearly didn't run on schedule and there just wasn't the variety of routes you have to be able to hit perfectly to dominate in the NFL. Lets also not forget that Gus Malzhan is a friggin' genius; every offense he's outright coached has had crazy production. All of this is to say that Cam is definitely worth a pick in my mind, but that pick is in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Email me at mcmaugustwest@gmail.com and be sure to follow me on Twitter @AugustWest_MCM
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Does this mean we will try and actually throw some short routes
that don’t take 5s to develop? OMG a slant!? What is that??
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
Palmer seems to understand that while CJ is a key component of the offense (and the driving force), there are other weapons there.
I like how he mentioned Cook and Stephens, I think both were vastly under-utilized and could become key contributors…in addition to developing Britt in the passing game.
Good evening. I'm Ron Burgundy, and here's what's happening in your world tonight.
by ronburgundy7427 on Mar 10, 2011 11:11 AM CST reply actions
The thing that i think gets overlooked in this 18 game season argument
is the records. Does nobody care that all the records will be broken within a few years? 5000 yards passing will become pretty commonplace. I don’t support an 18 game season already because of the injuries, but i would also like the season records to still mean something. Maybe thats just me though
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Mar 10, 2011 11:20 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Fair point but records always change.
Its kind of like a 1000 yard season- does anyone really consider that an achievement? Passing yards are skyrocketing as the NFL game is being opened up, so the old records are being shattered.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
The same happened when they went from 14 to 16 games.
But that 16 game schedule has worked out pretty well for everybody.
on the other side of things...
look at OJ Simpson. 2000 yards in 14 games today would be absurd and he did it. That makes it so much more impressive.
Not saying I disagree, but just looking for a silver lining.
I'm from the OC.
The one in OH.
by MattBen on Mar 10, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What also gets overlooked:
the quality of the extra games. People argue that the preseason games are meaningless and that the fans pay for the tickets but don’t ever get to see the star players and starters take the field. However:
1) the teams that are not in playoff contention will be playing “meaningless” games at the end of the year. No one will care about those matchups anyway.
2) The teams that have clinched playoff spots will likely be resting starters.
3) Even if a team is in the playoff hunt and has not clinched a spot, odds are that several starters will be out due to injury by weeks 18 and 19.
In effect, I’d bet that many of the final two regular season games won’t be much more interesting than preseason games should the schedule be expanded to 18 games.
by DoofusOfErasmus on Mar 10, 2011 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
Has anyone else checked out the First Draft podcast?
Link here.
It’s a talk show with Todd McShay and Mel Kiper where they discuss the candidates leading up to the draft. This one, in particular, is interesting as they spend a lot of their focus on the quarterbacks in the draft. Two things struck me as interesting:
1. They just brushed over Gabbert as the number 1 rated guy. It’s like it is a given, and not worth talking about.
2. They then proceed to GUSH over Andy Dalton. They, more or less, both call Dalton their favorite candidate in the draft, and the grade him as late first round, early second because of a marginal lack of tangibles.
Anyways. It’s worth a listen. I enjoy the “experts” insights, even if I don’t agree with them. It’s football talk…and I’ll take what I can get in the offseason.
If you’re only interested in the Andy Dalton commentary, jump to the 13:50 mark.
I want Dalton so bad it's ridiculous.
As I have said a number of times, give me his production and football intelligence over a physical freak who would need a lot of work to do fundamental things. Drew Brees was knocked for having a weak arm and small build…how’s that worked out for him?
Good evening. I'm Ron Burgundy, and here's what's happening in your world tonight.
by ronburgundy7427 on Mar 10, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
That's exactly who comes to my mind too
Brees was way too small with too weak an arm, and I don’t think anyone would dispute he’s a top 5 QB.
We’ve got plenty of freaks, we need someone who could be a real field general.
I <3 Dalton.
I'm from the OC.
The one in OH.
Except that take as a given
Gabbert’s, Newton’s, and Locker’s superiority. I just don’t get it
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
Because Dalton doesn't fit the mold of an NFL QB
Whereas Gabbert Newton and Locker meet the requirement which is pretty much be over 6-4 220 lbs and you suddenly have amazing potential
Fan of: New Jersey Devils, Tennessee Titans, New Jersey Nets, New York Mets, and the U
by NJD28 on Mar 10, 2011 3:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Matt Bowen
Actually I would not be sad at all if Matt Bowen’s worst case draft scenario turned out just that way. I think one of the better options in the draft would be Amukamara. Everyone is high on Peterson atm but I honestly think Amukamara’s skill set will translate into a better NFL career (more of a physical shutdown corner than a straight up ball hawk), and honestly Tennessee badly needs a corner like that. Our defense gets eaten alive every year because we play in a division with guys like Andre Johnson and Reggie Wayne who tear up these undersized CBs we keep throwing at them.
My perfect draft scenario would be to resign Collins for a year or two (we know we are gonna suck this year anyway, at least he is stable), pick up a defensive playmaker with the 8th overall, and then grab a QB in the second round (preferably Andy Dalton or Christian Ponder).
I am not thrilled with this first round crop of QBs at all and our D has alot of big holes to fill. Lets tackle defense first and develop one of these good, accurate QBprospects we can get in the 2nd while Collins starts for like a year or so. As long as we don’t draft Newton, Mallett, or Locker, Please Dear God.
Titan CB height/weights:
Finnegan: 5’10, 188
McCourty: 5’10, 193
Verner: 5’10, 187
For comparison’s sake, Darrell Revis is 5’11/198 and generally considered one of, if not the best, shutdown corners in the league right now. Our guys may not be a Woodson or Asomugha, but they’re not pushovers compared to one of the top corners in the league.
CB is not exactly priority one in the early rounds, Verner held his own as a rookie and will only get better. McCourty showed improvement. Blame the line and linebackers more than the corners. I’ll be kind of disappointed if they go CB in first round, I’d rather them trade down at that point.
Good evening. I'm Ron Burgundy, and here's what's happening in your world tonight.
by ronburgundy7427 on Mar 10, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Corrections and full roster
McCourty: 6’0, 188
Mouton: 5’9, 154
Hood: 5’11, 201
Hawkins: 6’0, 187
Fuller: 6’1, 192 (might as well be)
Ittersagen: 5’10, 191
and i agree the front 7 need more than our back 4
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-0ne
by Ice0ne (CAJ) on Mar 10, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with 7 part
because the better they are up front, the better it will make our back four look, even with the same back 4 guys.
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
This is what I get for going off of Wikipedia...
Still, looking through those it’s not like our DBs are teeming with 5’8, 5’9, 170 pound guys. That was really the point I was going for, that we’re not exactly “undersized” at CB like the original commenter said.
Good evening. I'm Ron Burgundy, and here's what's happening in your world tonight.
by ronburgundy7427 on Mar 10, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
HOLY.
CRAP.
I stand alone on this, but that just makes me want him even more at 8. Love Dalton and Ponder too still, but I don’t think we should pass (if he’s there) on the top rated QB.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Draft Dalton 8 overall?
I think that would be a helluva reach
Oh hai MCM
by Dagger22 on Mar 10, 2011 12:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Oh ya, not at 8.
My strategy would be that if Gabbert’s there at 8, take him. If not, that means there is a defensive stud there at 8, and I’d take him. Then you grab Dalton or Ponder at 39. I would be pretty shocked if both were gone by then.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
I don't view them as the same, though.
If there’s a run on QB’s in the first round, I’d trade back into the first to get Dalton.
I still like Ponder, but his injuries terrify me. The kid had three surgeries last year alone.
Frankly if there is a run on QBs I'd probably move up to get either of those guys.
At that point our options are trade up for one of them, or have Rusty Smith as the lone QB on our roster. If there’s a run and we didn’t take a QB at 8, Reinfeldt should absolutely go up and get one of them. The injuries on Ponder scare me a bit, but I think it was Doug Farrar that said “Everything about him screams future starter.”
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
last year experts had this red flag on bradford
and i think he played the whole season.
And when Stafford was drafted by detroit, no one said a thing. And now he can´t play two games in a row.
by criollo_pcg on Mar 10, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
i don't put too much stock into injury fears
Unless it’s a problem with a defensive linemen’s knees. You’re knees better be pretty healthy when you get to the NFL, because they sure as hell won’t be healthy when you leave
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Go Titans!
It'd be a pretty huge run
for all of them worth taking to be gone by the 39th pick.
In no specific order
1. Gabbert
2. Newton
3. Locker
4. Mallet
5. Dalton
6. Ponder
7. Kaepernick
I could see a little over half being gone but not all of them.
Cam Newton for Pres.
Cecil Newton for VP
If he works out we would be considered geinouses but if he dosen't work out we will look like morons
Fan of: New Jersey Devils, Tennessee Titans, New Jersey Nets, New York Mets, and the U
by NJD28 on Mar 10, 2011 3:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Based on wunderlic? Then shouldn't you want McElroy before Gabbert?
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
Apart from the fact that a gazillion other things come into account when looking at QBs.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
I thought there were only 3
starts, wonderlic, and completion percentage
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
Those would be the three stats I personally am most interested in.
There are off field things to take into account, interviews, character, etc.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
I know
and that’s why I would think you would like McElroy more, based on your chosen criteria. The only thing Gabbert beats him in is media love, right?
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by rothbard on Mar 10, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No, remember the rule works best when applied to the high end talent.
Its most successful when applied to the first round, and decreases slightly as the round number increases.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Does the fact that nearly every successful college QB was also successful in college not concern you re: Gabbert?
You continue to reiterate that 2nd round and later QB’s almost never succeed in the NFL, while dismissing the fact that QB’s with limited production and accolades in college almost never succeed in the NFL.
Its concerning
But I wouldn’t call his college career a massive flop either. Was it absolutely outstanding? No. I don’t really care about the accolades you want to see in a QB. Plenty of QBs have had all sorts of accolades and busted big time in the NFL. I’m not saying that no accolades leads to success, but rather that I don’t think the accolades are a good measure of a QB being a successful pro or not.
Before you bring up his stats again, all of which I am quite familiar with, I’ll say once again a point I’ve tried to reiterate. All the so-called draft experts must see something in him. These guys pour over game film and spend hours on end analyzing the QBs. Do I believe everything some draft guy says? No. Do I respect what they have to say? Absolutely. To be honest it seems like this is a case of everyone dismissing Gabbert by feeling they have somehow outsmarted every draftnik out there.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The so-called draft experts
Have been wrong several times over. The only job you can probably be more wrong at and still be employed is weatherman (and most weathermen are better than these draft “experts”).
Gabbert doesn’t have the production and is so-so on the accuracy (good at short-yardage but bad at intermediate/long throws). He seems to be a bright guy with some potential, but potential just means you ain’t done nothin’ yet. That’s Gabbert…
by shawneriksmith on Mar 10, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
You have said that we must have a first round talent QB to be successful.
ALL first round QBs (busts to booms) have had gaudy college careers, filled with records and awards. Why does the lack of that not concern you at all?
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Mar 10, 2011 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
Alright, first
You have said that we must have a first round talent QB to be successful.
This is not a finite statement. The most common method to success is to have a first round QB, but some teams have found their QB through FA or late rounds. While rare, it is done. Picking a second round QB does not eliminate us from selecting a franchise QB there- rather it just is less likely.
The lack of records and awards are concerning, as I said above. I just place less emphasis on it.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Re:
The lack of records and awards are concerning, as I said above. I just place less emphasis on it.
Yet, statistically (as far as I can tell), the incidence of success is nearly identical!
It’s like saying QB’s with Blonde hair only succeed 5% of the time, and QB’s with Black hair only succeed 5% of the time. You hammer my for not wanting to draft a Blonde haired quarterback, and then dismiss the information about black haired QBs.
That. Doesn’t. Make. Any. Sense.
On second thought. This fixes it.
You hammer my for not wanting to draft a Blonde haired quarterback
Even the later round QBs that were successful were gaudy statistically in college.
You won’t find ANYONE that was successful that wasn’t.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Mar 10, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
Tom Brady.
Though clearly that is only one instance, and a very, very rare case of success. But as far as sixth rounders go, that’s 1/1 for a QB who had success in the NFL that didn’t have as much in college.
Assuming that this site is right
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
Just ignore the 1/1 thing.
I wanted to show it was 1 for 1, but obviously it should be 1/a heck of a lot of sixth rounders.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
So you have 1 case out of who knows how many
And that makes it ok to take Gabbert? Is he the next Tom Brady, really?
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Mar 10, 2011 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
He asked me to find a late round QB that fit the above criteria.
That’s why I brought him up.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
No, no. In fact, the odds would suggest taking a first round QB.
The success rate of first round QBs is approx. 50%. It goes down as the draft proceeds. If we’re going to flip a coin to see if the QB is a success, at least flip the coin for the more highly rated player.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
I'm unconvinced that giving any significant wait to the "odds"
in the decision process of drafting is worthwhile. Odds matter in the long run, and given enough samples where the law of large numbers will bring the actual “value” in line with the expected value. None of this applies to the selection of single player once a year.
Drafting isn’t blackjack.
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Epistemological Police
So how come every team doesn't find their QB of the future in the fifth round?
Because the odds are against it.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
No, because the better players tend to be chosen first
and better QBs tend to have a better chance of being a “QB of the future”. It has nothing to do with GM’s crunching numbers and evaluating odds.
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
So again, if the better players are chosen first,
your strategy is to wait till they’re taken and choose from what’s left.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
NO.
The point is, I don’t need Mike Mayock to tell me who’s “better”.
Kevin Kolb is still a better pick than Jamarcus Russell/Brady Quinn despite being drafted in the second round.
More often than not,
I would think the better QBs are first round picks. 2007 I’ll give you. The years after that have produced top-end heavy successes. 2006 was just an overall bad year, but Cutler is a ‘hit’ of that draft. 2005 was Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers, favouring that once again the higher pick turned out to be a better player. 2004 is the most top heavy draft in a while.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Well if he was the "top rated QB"
it must be so
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
No,
I would take both Smith and Rodgers over whoever got drafted later.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
Hot DAMN!
That just led me to ANOTHER 2nd round or later QB. Kyle Orton. 2005 draft. 4th round.
I’d take him over Alex Smith.
No it's pick the QB you think is best
If you think someone else will take them before you do, you take them in a prior round. Getting them in the 1st round just for the sake of having a “1st round QB” is pointless.
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
The success rate of current NFL QBs with zero post season accolades (I'll throw Brady in this even though he was honorable mention all- Big 10) is 6%.
That’s 2/32 (Brady and Josh Freeman).
Better odds for 2nd round or later 4/32 (Cassel, Brees, Kolb, Schaub). You can even throw out one of those if you want. Hell, throw out two. The statistics are still equal.
How is it that you can dismiss “college ineptitude” as an indicator of NFL failure, yet be so hell bent on not taking a QB after the 2nd round?
If the chances are equal,
then why not take the gamble on the prospect who is:
a) more highly rated
b) has more potential to grow – scout’s opinion, not mine.
Its not that I am against taking a QB in the second round. I am against passing up the top rated QB if he somehow falls to 8. If he’s not there, then yes, our best option is to target a second round QB.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
I can discount Kolb if you'd like for me to make them equal, haha.
Here’s the thing. You counted Brady and Cassel in the “second round or later success” category. They also fall into “average college career” category. They are, however, not first round picks, so that would favour the data in your argument.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, and I should have included Cassel in the first go round.
So, with that said, and Kolb removed, it’s:
3/32 for “no accolades”. (Brady, Freeman, Cassel).
and
4/32 for “2nd round or later” (Brady, Brees, Schaub, Cassel)
Still 4/32 > 3/32
Not that the slight statistical difference is worth splitting hairs over. I just find it odd that you’ve gotten so hung up on Qbs being busts after the 2nd round, yet are so amazingly dismissive of the information that points to average college QBs being an NFL bust.
It’s like you made up your mind on Gabbert months ago when Mike Mayock had him at #1, and are unwilling to budge despite mountains of damning information.
Begging.The.Question
“Top rated QB” is the issue. There is no reason for Gabbert to be the “top rated QB” other than someone likes him. That’s fine, but then we should stop pretending that their is some sort of objective science to the selection of draft picks.
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
Answer this then: Why does someone "like" him?
Give me a reasonable explanation to why Gabbert sits atop QB boards that doesn’t involve conspiracy theories on how draftniks somehow came together to decide that he was the best QB and that way if they’re wrong they can all be wrong together.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
It doesn't require a secret meeting
It’s a herd mentality. Why should I have to give a reasonable explanation for why Gabbert is #1 rated QB when they (the “experts” in question) can’t even do it?
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
Which is what we were talking about the other day
and I am starting to believe more and more.
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
And if you believe that, that's your choice.
I choose not to buy into that theory.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
Because ESPN tells him to
and where else is he going to get his info/never ending stats?
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
I'm going to say something that none of you will believe, but I'll say it anyways.
I first heard of Gabbert in January when I was reading a college magazine on my trip.
My opinion on Gabbert is a combination of what I know about him and what people I respect have told me about him. I like Mike Mayock’s analysis. Maybe its not for everyone, but that’s alright.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
The only problem with this is
even Mayock can’t explain why Gabbert is #1 QB. Has he addressed the mediocre production at all?
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
Gabbert's mediocre production
Was due to the talent around him. Just surround him with 2 HOF WRs, best RB in football, All-Pro TE, and the best offensive line in the game…then he’s worth a 1st round pick.
by shawneriksmith on Mar 10, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
My little sister could be a worth a first round pick if those are the tools she has to work with
No joke.
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
what's your little sister's 40 time?
Music City Miracles blogger and High Secretary of Funk. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.
But Carolina has no one
She will end up like David Carr if she goes #1
Fan of: New Jersey Devils, Tennessee Titans, New Jersey Nets, New York Mets, and the U
by NJD28 on Mar 10, 2011 10:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I want to just put this out there, but..
I was watching the NFL Network a week or two after the Super Bowl, and they were discussing the QBs in draft and I heard out of Mike Mayock’s mouth say Andy Dalton was the QB he very impressed with. He also said he was probably his favorite. BUT, that was at that time, and I haven’t heard that since. However, I really haven’t been watching either.
So take that for what it’s worth.
Don't get me wrong- I love Andy Dalton.
I just on board with Gabbert at 8 too.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
I need to find some tape on Dalton still
I watched Gabbert against tough competition in Nebraska and he was throwing the ball flatfooted, was getting destroyed when he held on to the ball too long, and made some really horrible decisions. I have no idea how any of these guys can see Gabbert succeed against the best defenses the world has to offer if he can’t even beat a really good NCAA D
Fan of: New Jersey Devils, Tennessee Titans, New Jersey Nets, New York Mets, and the U
by NJD28 on Mar 10, 2011 10:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The reliance on "first round QB" as a method of screening candidates
since it has no meaning other than where they were selected in the draft! Of course the better players tend to go first! Needing “a 1st round QB” is no different than saying you “need a good QB”
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
Isn't the point of the draft to find a good QB?
If the good QBs go first, then we should target those QBs. Your theory is we should wait until the ‘better players’ (your words, not mine) are picked and then choose from the scraps?
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
No, the point is "1st round QB" is arbitrary and meaningless as a criteria
since it is already subsumed under “good QB”. If we had drafted Rusty Smith in the 1st round last year would it have somehow made him a different player?
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
But Rusty Smith wasn't rated as a first round QB for a reason.
Let’s put it this way. Having the most talent means you’re going to be a first rounder. The best way to get the guy with the most talent then would be to draft the top rated first round talents.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
Right, and so the question is HOW to determine
what constitutes a "top rated talent’?
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
That's what the scouts are for.
And in the media, that’s why I person like Mayock has a job. He is giving his best attempt at ranking the top rated talent using criteria scouts are looking for.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
I see where you are going with this WTF...
but maybe Gabbert (who for some reason I like a little) and Newton are only first round talent this year as compared to the other QB’s in this draft.
I think where most of us get leary about drafting one of these “First Rounders” this year is because based off of college production or some of the techinque issues these guys would more than likely not be rated as first rounders in any other draft class. if these guys came out with say…Luck, or Bradford or throw out several other soon to be or recent 1st rd. qb’s do you honestly think they would still be considered 1st rd. qb’s/
I guess my whole point is I do not see much difference between Gabbert at 8 and Dalton at 39, in this class and if the only reason Gabbert is a first rounder is just because this is an average class at best, does that really mean that he is truly a 1st round talent?
True
I would “rate” Gabbert and Newton below Luck, Bradford, Ryan, Flacco, Stafford, McCoy, and even possibly Jimmy Clausen…so, I just don’t know how you can say these two guys have “1st round” talent? They may be better than some of the other QBs in this draft, but they are not worth a 1st round grade.
by shawneriksmith on Mar 10, 2011 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
I think the only reason that are being considered in the first round
is because this QB draft class is so weak. That being said, none of them are worth a first round grade, but so many teams are QB hungry warranting the first round pick.
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
AND! Jamarcus Russell
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
by StPrattrick on Mar 10, 2011 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
And Matt Leinart!
haha such a douche
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
by StPrattrick on Mar 10, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
Knew that was coming
Honestly, wouldn’t say he was a bust on the level of the people listed above. More so a disappointment.
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
RE:
I’m not saying that no accolades leads to success, but rather that I don’t think the accolades are a good measure of a QB being a successful pro or not.
I’m not saying they’re a measure, either. I’m saying they should be a pre-requisite.
Over and over yesterday, you made me aware that 2nd round QBs don’t fare well in the NFL. This was one of your main points for taking a QB in the first round.
Now, I’m pointing out that NFL QBs with limited college production/accolades are just as rarely successful as are 2nd round or later picks.
You’re dismissing/selectively using relevant information.
Brady wasn't he wasn't even the starter
Fan of: New Jersey Devils, Tennessee Titans, New Jersey Nets, New York Mets, and the U
by NJD28 on Mar 10, 2011 4:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
So how do you decide what is "first-round talent" in order to apply your formula?
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
We've been over this. Twice already I think.
The Titans should rank their top QBs, designating which are first and second round talents, and apply the rule to them. Those who fail the formula miserably should not be considered as draft choice in high rounds.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
He's talking about the 26-27-60 rule.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
But you said formula only applies to those taken in high rounds
so why would you use the formula to screen for potential high round picks?
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
by rothbard on Mar 10, 2011 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We've gone over it several times and as a result I'm not going to reply to any more of these.
Its getting frustrating. The Titans have already designated the “high round picks.” Its not who Mayock has designated, its not who I think is a high round pick. They have, with their scouts and management team, decided which players are first round/second round picks. Then you apply the formula.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
But then I don't see the point of the formula...
If the required input to the formula is determined by subjective evaluation of scouts/personnel departments then what claim can the formula make to being some sort of objective filter? Especially once you start introducing exemptions/fudge factors for favored players. Isn’t it simply fitting the data to your conclusion?
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
I think applying a formula to a potential draft pick is about as useless
as applying to a formula to when a meteor is going to end the world. I think that’s just a way of draft experts trying to appear smarter then they actually are.
I’ll tell you the “formula” they follow, successful in college + incredible stats + media friendly = first over all pick.
All of this shit is a 50/50 coin flip with some people more likely to succeed/fail, just like anything else in life.
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
And in Gabbert's case it is
Success in college + incredible stats + media friendly – success in college – incredible stats = media friendly = first pick
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
I'm gonna say
while I’m not sold on Gabbert I’m inclined the more I think about it to pick him based on the fact all of the scouts and analysts think he’s worthy of a top 10 pick.
Now I know that was the case with a guy like Jemarcus Russell and shit, but seems as though they are right more than they are wrong.
I don’t wanna pass on top 3 talent at number 8 if the chance comes along. Guy goes on to progress faster than most and tears up the world and we pass on him based on college stats.
by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 10, 2011 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
You know
People act like he’s just popped up out of nowhere, but really he’s been the #1 rated QB the whole time. I remember hearing recaps this past season saying how he wasn’t quite meeting the expectations set for him.
Also CBSSports draft rankings had him at #1 for the QB’s back in January when I made my first mock draft.
I’m not high on Gabbert by ANY means, but he didn’t just pop out of nowhere and start riding the media wave.
Cam Newton for Pres.
Cecil Newton for VP
I didn't know too much
about him before this season. Didn’t see much about him being a top rated QB till at 3 quarters of the way through the season. From what I understood Mizzou’s D was what made them go and had them highly ranked at one point. Luck was definitely the clear cut number 1 the whole time. When Luck decided to stay it seemed like his stock skyrocketed.
I just have to trust people that know a lot more than I do and get paid to do so. I mean if the consensus is the guy has all the tools and they think he will progress into a star that’s worthy of a top 10 selection you kind gotta believe em.
by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 11, 2011 7:02 AM CST up reply actions
Gabbert's high character and smarts have been a plus from jump
apparently he was a stellar student
Music City Miracles blogger and High Secretary of Funk. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.
by August West on Mar 10, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Gabbert has every thing you want to see physically, mentally, and emotionally at QB. The problem is he's merely average at the actual game of football.
Yet, somehow:
Excellent Measureables + Average performance = Top 5 Grade
This, he's great at everything except the actual QB'ing
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
There's more to being a QB
Than just being “smart”. Wonderlic is nice but decision making during an actual game and accuracy is paramount.
by shawneriksmith on Mar 10, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
Do you happen to know what Dalton made?
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Mar 10, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
I've never seen it
it’s tough to tell what anyone past the top guys have made because the scores are never officially released. They jsut manage to leak out some of them.
Music City Miracles blogger and High Secretary of Funk. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.
by August West on Mar 10, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
I see Newton as this years Pierre-Paul
He goes right before us too (fingers crossed)
by SouthTexasTitan on Mar 10, 2011 11:58 AM CST reply actions
MCM Research Exercise of the Day!
Can someone find me a successful NFL quarterback, drafted in the first round, that has a resume as bad or worse than Gabbert’s?
does not exist
Bawz Hawgin' from H-town to 'Toga Town
by MarkusInSaratoga on Mar 10, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Heres a scary thing for you
So far ive found his statistics to be most similar to….Kerry Collins in college, though KFC had more wins.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Mar 10, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Even then, though, Collins won all sorts of post season awards (Davy O'brien, Maxwell)
You could even say that Matt Ryan had poor statistics in college, on the surface. But, when you watch his tape, and actually see what he did for that team, you can see that he carried them on his back at BC. Post season voters saw this as well…awarding him the Johnny Unitas and Manning awards.
Jay Cutler had fewer wins
and threw for a few less yards his last year, but he had a much better TD/INT ratio against much better competition…
Music City Miracles blogger and High Secretary of Funk. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.
by August West on Mar 10, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Knowing what you know TODAY about Cutler, would you really use a top 10 pick on him?
I don’t consider him a “successful” QB in the sense that I would not use that #8 Pick to draft him. I think he’s above average, but not a franchise QB.
And, I'll add, he was a finalist for the Johnny Unitas award. He also set all sorts of school records at Vandy. He was also first team All-SEC
He didn’t set the world on fire statistically, but in the context of the players around him, his stats were relatively impressive.
Being a world beater in college seems to be a pre-req for being in the first round at all,
You won’t even find any “busts” that didn’t have gaudy stats. That really makes Gabbert an anomaly in this case.
Ain't no time for hesitatin'
All you got to do is groove
by BonzosMontreaux on Mar 10, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
You have no idea how right you are about the talent around Jay in college
he had Earl Bennett, and that’s it. Literally. I know Chris Williams went in the first round, but I never thought he was very good, and that’s proven true in the pros.
Music City Miracles blogger and High Secretary of Funk. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.
by August West on Mar 10, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Right.
The point being, I can go back, watch tape, and really understand why his production suffered. And, voters saw that as well; nominating him for the Johnny Unitas and awarding him All-SEC.
I can’t find excuses for Gabbert. College production and/or postseason awards should be a pre req for the NFL. I don’t understand why people believe that things are suddenly just going to “click” for Gabbert in college. He’s been a mirage his whole career, starting with his high school recruitment where he was rated the #1 pro style QB.
If you don't consider Cutler successful
Then you might as well count out all the quaterbacks in this draft, I don’t think any of them, except maybe Ponder, goes on to be more successful then Cutler is right now.
The Official Pretend Mock GM for the 2011 Music City Miracle Titans.
Go Titans!
Cutler has definitley
had a successful career thus far… Hasn’t been great, but definitely a success.
by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 10, 2011 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
Cutler
played for Vandy in the SEC. Vandy is not known for churning out NFL talent like Georgia, FL, Bama, Auburn, etc.. The best QB’s in NFL history would have likely put up a similar # of wins playing for Vandy as Cutler did. Unfair comparison.
Bawz Hawgin' from H-town to 'Toga Town
by MarkusInSaratoga on Mar 10, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
So
are we all liking Palmer more now, at least a lil bit??? I recall when he was hired many MCMers were pissed off and/or disappointed. I took the wait and see approach, thinking he was a good choice after seeing the QB’s and WR’s he helped to develop. As I mentioned before, his failures were because it was the Carr years of the Texans and the Browns, ’nuff said.
Anyway, this is the best Morning Link’s we’ve had in a while….lots of good stuff, info, and the negative stuff does not involve anyone conected to the Titans :)
Bawz Hawgin' from H-town to 'Toga Town
by MarkusInSaratoga on Mar 10, 2011 12:37 PM CST reply actions
my view of palmer remains the same
“i’ll believe it when i see it.” until then i’ll remain skeptical.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
I like it. We need it…we need teachers of the game.
Bawz Hawgin' from H-town to 'Toga Town
by MarkusInSaratoga on Mar 10, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
If he's really considering starting with Krusty and leading this offense
Then we are going to have problems….
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
I'm thinking Palmer is going to start whomever he is told to start
Can’t really see the decision to be up to him
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
I am going off of his comments
and he’ll start whoever I TELL HIM TO START!!!!!!!!1
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
Shit I forgot you were Executive OC
You need to be GM too though in order to make sure who you want to start is actually on the team!
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
I'm workin' on it, chill!
Gotta bust some faces first and bolster up that resume’!
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
Nothing's changed on my view of Palmer.
I hope he finds lots of success here, but I’ll need actual evidence of his brilliance on the field before anything changes.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
2 years of average-good play vs. 20 years of experience that has mild successes and horrendous failures.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Must.Resist.Put.Down.Keyboard.Happy.Pills.To.Mouth.Ahh.Better
Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Epistemological Police
Trying.So.Hard.To.Be.Better...
Don’t.know.how.much…. longer… I can. Hold. on!
By the Hammer of Thor (Munchak)!!!!
WTF, you excuse Fisher's performance during the "salary cap purge" years
But, you won’t excuse Palmer’s performance with expansion teams??
by shawneriksmith on Mar 10, 2011 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
This topic has been killed repeatedly.
Go look in the Palmer thread.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Mar 10, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
18 Game schedule
As long as they will increase the roster to 70 players instead of 63 I don’t see why not. The game would not really be that more meaningless I think pre-season for the most part is meaningless for veterans. It’s only good to evaluate rookies and 2nd and 3rd string.. 7 more roster spots is HUGE
These are not easy decisions, but I have a responsibility to move things in the direction that I have laid out for this team
– Mike Munchak
I support this
Increase the max roster size, also the idea of adding another bye week.
With both of those things in place, and eliminating two preseason games, I don’t see why anyone would be unhappy.
The Official Pretend Mock GM for the 2011 Music City Miracle Titans.
Go Titans!
the active roster is only 53
and 45 for each game w/o the emergency QB.
with ps players the full rosteris 61
MCM's Coolest Person. See, I have Ice in My name!
-0ne
by Ice0ne (CAJ) on Mar 10, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
I found it interesting, not shocking, that he said we have TWO
Good TEs. He didn’t even mention Scaife (Thank the good Lord). So, his time is definitely done here in Tennessee. . . not like that is surprising. Also, I really like what I read about him. He seems confident and we need that, desperately.
GO TITANS!!!
There is defsies a new era of offense coming in...
Gone is Gage, Scaife and Young.
In is Britt, Cook, and whoever we draft at QB(PLEASE DALTON).
YAY for a good young offense.
I'm from the OC.
The one in OH.
Also, hopefully
YAY for a good young defense?
Not that young but young enough…
I'm from the OC.
The one in OH.
good luck finding 3 new LBs!
but I´m a fan, and somehow still believe some of our own LBs can step up.
So did Chuck Cecil
Music City Miracles blogger and High Secretary of Funk. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.
Haha...37.5%
What about the other 62.5%? Probably something along the lines of “under-center”
Why have 5 starting pitchers when you can just as easily have 7?
by Bryan J. Boltik on Mar 10, 2011 4:53 PM CST reply actions
yup
there were a slew of guys who had 65% or so shotgun snaps (some great, some not so much), but I got a chuckle out of that as well
Music City Miracles blogger and High Secretary of Funk. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.
I like this staff 1000...
times better than the last one!
That is easy to say
on March 10th. Might want to reserve judgement until at least after the draft… Just my .02
"I don't know. I never smoked AstroTurf." Tug McGraw (when asked if he preferred grass or artificial turf)
The Insider article is pretty stupid...
but what college offense are you watching where QBs are throwing complex route trees full of option routes with multiple reads and then throwing into "tight’ windows?? This is one of the weakest arguments about college QBs that seems to have only become prevalent since the spread took off in college. Jeff Tedford has taught “pro style” QBs for years – ask Akili Smith, David Carr, Kyle Boller, Joey Harrington and even Trent Dilfer how that worked out for them. Ask Brady Quinn and Jimmy Clausen how the Charlie Weis offense straight from the NFL prepared them. The fact is that the talent disparity in college means all of these QBs throw to wide open receivers, rarely have to make complex reads, and get away with all sorts of sloppy footwork and bad decisions. The difference is with the guys who have the combination of the physical tools and the obsession for perfecting every little detail – they will succeed regardless of the system they played in during college.
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