Jared Cook is NOT Ben Troupe

by shawneriksmith on Oct 11, 2011 11:56 PM CDT

I have heard in comments recently that Jared Cook is just another Ben Troupe or Fisher was right in keeping him on the bench.

I am not going to lie to you...Jared Cook could probably play better. A lot of our receivers not named Britt or Washington could. But, to go as far to say that Cook is just another Ben Troupe or Fisher was right to keep him on the bench (behind Bo Scaife, for that matter) is appalling.

Here is the Football Outsider's DVOA rankings for TEs so far this year. I did eliminate all TEs who had less than 20 passes thrown to them (FO's look at TEs with at least 8 passes). Cook ranks in the same area as Jason Witten, Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Pettigrew, Jeremy Shockey, and Dustin Keller.

Now, I know some people question his blocking...and it definitely needs to continue to improve. But, I have seen Cook block well on some occasions just as I have seen him block poorly. But he is not a blocking TE...he is a receiving TE.

Now, can Cook play better? Absolutely...he'll need to continue to get comfortable in this offense and with Hasselbeck. Can Palmer continue to use Cook more creatively? Absolutely, as he finds out Cook's strengths, that should happen.

Is Cook another Ben Troupe? Absolutely not...was Fisher right in keeping him on the bench? Seriously??

Player	Team	DVOA	VOA	Passes	Yards
R.Gronkowski	NE	57.10%	58.30%	31	327
F.Davis	WAS	44.60%	45.30%	22	248
J.Finley	GB	41.50%	41.90%	32	306
J.Graham	NO	34.60%	36.60%	48	496
A.Hernandez	NE	31.40%	33.90%	27	221
V.Davis	SF	30.70%	30.80%	26	263
H.Miller	PIT	27.80%	26.80%	21	190
O.Daniels	HOU	26.60%	23.20%	34	271
T.Gonzalez	ATL	26.30%	25.70%	41	289
G.Olsen	CAR	23.60%	26.30%	32	240
D.Keller	NYJ	21.30%	17.90%	33	268
J.Witten	DAL	15.20%	14.40%	42	366
J.Cook	TEN	12.70%	12.90%	22	208
B.Pettigrew	DET	12.60%	12.80%	36	279
J.Shockey	CAR	1.80%	3.10%	27	199
J.Gresham	CIN	-1.30%	-0.80%	36	213
R.McMichael	SD	-1.80%	-3.30%	21	131
T.Heap	ARI	-2.10%	-4.50%	20	150
B.Watson	CLE	-4.20%	-5.60%	30	173
E.Dickson	BAL	-5.20%	-5.60%	32	180
K.Winslow	TB	-7.00%	-9.00%	36	217
V.Shiancoe	MIN	-10.90%	-8.80%	24	114
D.Clark	IND	-17.90%	-16.30%	28	136
L.Kendricks	STL	-21.50%	-22.50%	21	102
B.Celek	PHI	-47.10%	-48.20%	21	73

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Comments

Better blocking?!

What about his Sweet Chin Music to the alleged Murder?!

No actually it was here:

That was one of the best blocks i’ve seen in this young season so far.

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by StPrattrick on Oct 12, 2011 12:11 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Yep

Stone walled him!

Best sig ever, reason 1, reason 2

by Ice0ne (CAJ) on Oct 12, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions

What's Troupe's DVOA???

Interweb DVOA: +100%
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by rothbard on Oct 12, 2011 9:43 AM CDT reply actions

Re:

2004: – 28.1%
2005: – 5.0%
2006: – 23.1%

by SuperHorn on Oct 12, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions

I'm sorry, but until Cook proves otherwise (and here's to hoping he does),

he is Troupe 2.0. All potential, no production.

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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Oct 12, 2011 10:39 AM CDT reply actions

He has 11 catches for 208 yards in limited reps.

That’s nothing to scoff at. TE’s don’t produce like receivers.

Extrapolated over a full season that’s ~30 catches for 600 yards and 3 TDs. Those stats are good enough for 12th best in the NFL last year by yardage.

YTD, he ranks 14th among his peers. He has the 2nd highest YPC among TE’s with 10+ receptions. And, he’s 9th among ALL receivers. I realize that includes 1 statistical outlier with his monster reception, but the other leaders benefit from those types of outliers as well.

People expecting Antonio Gates type production need to re-adjust expectations. He may not be a Pro Bowl talent (yet), but his production this year is above average.

by SuperHorn on Oct 12, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions

I hate this type of argument

Anybody can say Cook is an awesome player AFTER he puts up amazing numbers. What’s the point of saying something like that?

That’s like saying “I won’t believe the sun is coming up tomorrow until I see it”…ok.

The question is: do you think Cook is more talented than Ben Troupe? I provide evidence that he is (FO’s DVOA)…what have you provided?

If you look at Cook’s last 12 games he has played (the last 7 games Fisher actually allowed him to play last year and the first 5 games this year), Cook has 37 catches, 511 yards, and 2 TDs. If you expand that to a 16 game season, then he would have 50 catches, 681 yards, and 3 TDs. I know that’s not Antonio Gates type numbers, but that’s pretty darn good…and a hell of a lot better than Ben Troupe ever did.

So, just because Cook hasn’t put up Antonio Gates or Tony Gonzalez numbers doesn’t mean that he is Ben Troupe 2.0….that’s a ridiculous statement.

by shawneriksmith on Oct 12, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions

Oh please. You're basing your argument off what you WANT to happen and not what we've seen.

Anybody can say Cook is an awesome player AFTER he puts up amazing numbers. What’s the point of saying something like that?

Because we’ve said he’ll be an awesome player and he’s now in his third season. Cook is the Texans of tight ends.

I provide evidence that he is (FO’s DVOA)…what have you provided?

According to Troupe’s DVOA by SuperHorn above, Cook is actually below Troupe.

Deleting comments from a blog is not 'censorship.' Common practice. -BBS

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Oct 12, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions

While I somewhat agree with you... he hasn't really been given full attention from the offense

and some reason keeps getting bumped to 2nd TE. Now if it’s because they don’t believe in him or what…? I don’t know, but I am not going to say he doesn’t cut it until he’s gotten an full chance to prove himself.

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by StPrattrick on Oct 12, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions

No, Cook is not below Troupe

Troupe never had a DVOA above 0% (he averaged around -18% during the top of his career).

Cook had a DVOA of +23.6% last year and +12.7% this year so far.

Per FO’s DVOA stat, Cook has outplayed Troupe by ~35%…that’s a massive delta.

Yes, Cook is now in his third season…but he was barely used his rookie year and didn’t start playing much last year until Bo Scaife made that VY comment and Fisher benched him.

Cook has produced and I believe he still has a lot of potential to get even better as he learns this offense and as Hasselbeck and Palmer get more comfortable with him.

He may never be at the same level as Gates or Gonzalez (only a few TEs are), but Cook is nowhere near Ben Troupe.

by shawneriksmith on Oct 12, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions

My mistake on the stats, I missed the negative signs on the data.

Cook has produced this year sporadically, that’s nowhere near what a good tight end should be at.

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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Oct 12, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions

Sporadically?

I don’t know what you expect out of the TE position…what TE puts up 100 yard games every week or a TD every game??

Do you think Jason Witten is a good TE??

Well, Cook had a higher DVOA than Witten last year and so far this year (Witten had +18.9% last year and +15.2% this year so far).

So, maybe we have different definitions of what a “good” TE is…by everything I have seen, Cook has been “good” since he started getting more playing time last year. He can be “great” if he gets more consistent (which I expect as this offense progresses).

by shawneriksmith on Oct 12, 2011 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions

Stats so far:

1 rec, 7 yards.
2 rec. 37 yards.
2 rec, 12 yards.
2 rec, 93 yards.
4 rec, 59 yards.
I have no problem if he continues to put up 4 for 60 each game, but he started off terrible the first three games, and then had the nice long play in Cleveland. Solid game most recently, but not a lot to write home about there.

Deleting comments from a blog is not 'censorship.' Common practice. -BBS

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Oct 12, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions

In those first 3 games

Cook was targeted 2, 3, and 2 times, respectively.

So, is Cook’s “sporadic” play a result of poor play from Cook or just Hasselbeck throwing the ball to Britt/Washington those first 3 games?

by shawneriksmith on Oct 12, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Its probably a combination, but I'm inclined to put it more on Cook than Hasselbeck.

Hasselbeck has shown in his limited time he he’s going to make the correct decisions with the ball. So either Cook wasn’t open, or the coaching staff decided not to use him as much.

Deleting comments from a blog is not 'censorship.' Common practice. -BBS

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Oct 12, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions

I'd take these numbers in limited snaps

doesn’t help either when Hasselhoff is throwing to 11 different receivers a game either.
I’d really like to start seeing some Pettigrew screens like we saw in the Lions game on Monday. That big of a dude running behind linemen is basically the flying V.

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by StPrattrick on Oct 12, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions

QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK!

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DUCKS!

…I loved those movies (D2 is the best).

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by ronburgundy7427 on Oct 12, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions

KNUCKLEPUCK!!!!!

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by StPrattrick on Oct 12, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions

The Flying V!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best sig ever, reason 1, reason 2

by Ice0ne (CAJ) on Oct 12, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions

He'll Ben Troupe......

With me until his production gets in line with his hype. We’ve heard how great an athelete he is(just like Troupe) yet were are still waiting to see it on the field. At least he is not stealing money like Bo Scaife did last year. So he can be so-so on the cheap.

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by jmkiii58 on Oct 13, 2011 1:13 PM CDT reply actions