A Request

by SuperHorn on Jan 9, 2011 10:34 AM CST

These are tough times for Titans fans. This is one of the lowest points in franchise history. And, with that comes baggage. You don't realize how much a sports team can impact you as a fan until the team is in the gutter. With that comes frustration, anger and opinions.

Obviously, there are differing opinions on this site. That's OK. In a sense, that's what SB Nation was created to achieve. It allows fans to congregate and discuss their favorite teams.

My issue lately is that some of the comments on the site, mine included, have become less about productive, insightful opinions, and more about vitriolic, condescending attacks. I think this needs to stop. It's good to have a forum of differing opinions where we can share those ideas in a productive manner. But, when nearly every opinion is met with instant beratement and dismissal from the opposing view, it doesn't get us anywhere.

My request is this: Think before you comment. Ask yourself if it's worth the momentary satisfaction to take a jab at the poster with the opposing view. And, if you do have a differing opinion, consider addressing said opinion in a respectful manner, or, if that's not possible, then don't respond at all.

In times like these, people often forget that we, as fans, all want the same thing; for the franchise to be successful. Keep that in mind before you post.

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Comments

THIS POST SUCKS!!!!11!!

Just kidding.

Really, I’m sick of all the personal attacks and rabble.

Rec’d for Truthiness.

"It all started with a badly timed bald joke." -Colin Mochrie

"Winston, you are drunk." -Lady Astor
"Yes my dear, but you are ugly, and in the morning I shall be sober." -Winston Churchill

by King Titan on Jan 9, 2011 10:53 AM CST reply actions

Someone a Colbert fan?

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 9, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions

I agree entirely

I think we need to stop taking sides (for and against the stache). I think we all need to come to one side: The Titans side. We need to support what the Titans staff chooses to do. We may not agree with it, but we should support. We cannot affect their decisions, so there is no point in all the degrading comments and constant and reoccurring arguments about the same things.

Very good post SuperHorn. Rec’d

At least we are better than the Texans

by MikeGriffFan27 on Jan 9, 2011 11:02 AM CST reply actions

Well said.

I have a question though- and this is often where my vitriol comes from. Are you going to stop manipulating stats? The battle between you, hal and gramsey yesterday was interesting to watch. I think you misrepresented the Fisher-McNair era, and discount every variable that could possibly support Fisher. Stats are great but you fail to look past them. Everyone including myself respects your opinion, but there are times when you don’t provide the full story. For example, your statement:

It’s important to remind everyone that even with Steve McNair at quarterback, Fisher had more losing seasons than winning seasons

is a manipulation of words. After reading that statement, I was left to wonder how Fisher could possibly be seen as a good coach back then. Gramsey then pointed out:

Steve’s career as far as "him playing the most snaps at quarterback" was 4 winning seasons, 2 losing seasons and 2 8-8 seasons. (Volek took the most snaps in ’04). Steve also had an MVP season in there.

A lot of people will take your above statement and look no further. But as G-Ram pointed out, if you look further, there’s a lot more to it than ‘losing more than he won.’ There are several more examples but I’ve ranted long enough.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 9, 2011 1:35 PM CST reply actions

Like most things that are opinionated, this is about perspective.

And, if we’re really looking at it literally, “manipulating stats” would actually involve me removing those last two years. You could suggest that they are out of context, but stat manipulation is a bit more of an invidious allegation. It suggests that I deliberately took the stats, and tweaked data to further my point. I didn’t. I took that data and made a very broad statement.

I’m glad G responded like he did. It allowed further clarification, and the point about the record really wasn’t the main point I intended to make. By him responding, it allowed me to clear up what that point.

99% of the time when I’m looking at these stats it’s not me data mining for information that furthers my point. I generally take information, and try to extract information. Sometimes, that may be done incorrectly. Possibly with bias. I dunno.

by SuperHorn on Jan 9, 2011 2:08 PM CST up reply actions

Alright,

I am not suggesting you are tweaking data to support your argument but is taking data and making a very broad statement that much better? A statement, I might add, that since its coming from you, a respected blogger, most people will automatically assume is absolutely correct. Your statement on Fisher’s win/loss with McNair is not false but its not neccessarily correct either. Football is much, much more than a person looking purely at stats and drawing conclusions. That’s what gramsey pointed out.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 9, 2011 2:21 PM CST up reply actions

The two are very different IMO.

One involves me directly misleading a fanbase to further a point.

The other involves me making an opinion without clarifying context.

And, though it’s a flattering thought to think that my comments are immediately taken as gospel, I’m more inclined to believe that the fanbase is intelligent enough to draw their own conclusions.

Moving forward, if you have an issue, speak up, and bring the data to support it. That’s productive. Comments like “it bothers me when you only use stats and don’t look where they came from” probably aren’t going to illicit a response from me.

by SuperHorn on Jan 9, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions

Fine.

The other involves me making an opinion without clarifying context.

You are right: making an opinion without clarification is better than misleading people. That still doesn’t make it right. You weren’t citing your opinion, you were citing stats. “Jeff Fisher had more losing seasons with McNair than he did winning seasons” is a statement, not opinion. And, that statement was wrong. In seasons that McNair had the most snaps (in other words, the years when McNair did in fact play not the ones where he was just on the roster) Fisher only had 2 losing seasons out of 8. He had 4 winning seasons and 2 8-8 seasons with him also.

And, though it’s a flattering thought to think that my comments are immediately taken as gospel, I’m more inclined to believe that the fanbase is intelligent enough to draw their own conclusions.

You and I both know that this fanbase is very, very intelligent. But that doesn’t mean your opinions don’t hold a lot of weight around here. For example, you constantly bring up how Fisher spins everything. You cite the relocation years and cap-induced devastating years as Fisher spinning public opinion about him. The fact remains that those years happened, they weren’t ‘spun’ by anyone.

Moving forward, if you have an issue, speak up, and bring the data to support it. That’s productive. Comments like "it bothers me when you only use stats and don’t look where they came from" probably aren’t going to illicit a response from me.

The fact that you will not recognize comments that do not contain data is a bit off-putting. As far as I know, there are no facts that will say a relocating team has X number of added distractions, which result in Y number of extra hurdles to clear, and causing Z number of extra losses.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 9, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions

Re:

You are right: making an opinion without clarification is better than misleading people. That still doesn’t make it right. You weren’t citing your opinion, you were citing stats.

Forgive me if you’re offended by such statements and feel that they’re “not right”. It’s merely an opinion. I’m sincerely sorry if you think the statement, and prior statements were careless, and harmful. That’s not my intent.

To your main point, I’m still of the opinion that after 17 years you more or less know what you’ve got with a coach. His stability means that he’s going to go through turbulent times. Most franchises fire their coaches during those times. We haven’t.

The relocation, cap years, and Vince Young all happened. My comments appear to have been construed by some as me just shrugging those off. I’m not. The point about him spinning that is that, as it appears to me, he’s done a great job of diverting blame without accepting any himself.

I really don’t want to rehash those years, though. I don’t think it’s a bone worth picking since you’ve admitted you want Fisher gone as well. So, in the end, it would seem that we’re arguing about who has a better reason for why Fisher should be fired. I suspect you have better things to do on a Sunday. Namely, watching two dynamic offenses this afternoon in the NFL playoffs.

by SuperHorn on Jan 9, 2011 3:41 PM CST up reply actions

The thread about not arguing has turned into an argument. LOL

Us long term Titans fans have been through losing seasons before. We know that you can come out of the other side and see success. It started in 06 with this current core, and it will happen again when we find a new QB and another group of leaders moving forward. Brighter days are ahead, people!

But the debating is, no doubt, a lot of fun! SuperHorn, I registered to post here for the purpose of arguing with you and others about Jeff Fisher after Week 2, if I recall, haha.

My point is, there is nothing wrong with some debate. Even some heated debate. But we DO all want the same thing, so it wouldn’t kill us to be a little more civil.

"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"

by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 9, 2011 6:03 PM CST reply actions 2 recs

Amen!

Charter Member of the Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame

by gotitans27 on Jan 9, 2011 7:02 PM CST reply actions

Agreed!! Somewhat...

I do agree that the attacks need to stop, as well as the arguments just for arguments sake. However, there are some legitimate differences of opinions going on on this blog. I think it is going to worthwhile to explore these differences this off-season.

For example: You say in your post that this is one of the lowest times in franchise history. I do not agree with you there. 6-10 isn’t great, but we were really only a few unlucky plays away from being 9-7. We are parting ways with a QB we drafted 3rd overall… doesn’t sound good, but some might say it’s a blessing in disguise. We still have a great running back, an absolute stud of a WR, an above average core defense, and the 8th pick in the draft. All is not lost!! Everyone is acting like next year is going to be 2004 all over again. I know we’re all depressed right now, but c’mon guys. This team is not that far away from being a playoff contender. Even without knowing who our QB is going to be.

by Gas-House Gorilla on Jan 9, 2011 10:26 PM CST reply actions

I think it's one of the lowest when it comes to expectations.

Starting out 5-2 and then getting Randy Moss made me think that we were getting serious about a playoff run. Finishing 1-8 was like falling off a cliff. The 0-6 start last season was almost as bad after a 13-3 season.

I’ve been an Oiler fan since Bum Philips and had to live through countless one, two or three win seasons. I’ve never had expectations dashed like they have been this year.

by foobarred on Jan 10, 2011 8:01 AM CST up reply actions

In many forums...

There is an up/down vote for each comment. If there is enough down votes, then the comment is rendered invisible, and only visible if a user clicks to view.

You should ask SBN whether they plan on adding this feature at some point.

by foobarred on Jan 10, 2011 8:06 AM CST reply actions

Agree

… but sometimes things still get out of hand. In cases like this, I think a moderator should step in when comments contains personal attacks or disrespectful in manner.

"We take pride in running the football here". - Eugene Amano, C

Charter Member of the Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame

by Pinoy Titan on Jan 10, 2011 10:40 AM CST reply actions

An excellent post....

Individuals use personal attacks when the facts presented can not be dismissed. The facts can not be argued away. So the only angle left is the personal attack. This card is played all the time in politics. Especially during election cycle years. When I’m personally attacked, I just smile. Why? I have won the arguement. All of us want what is best for the Titans. The collapse of this season showed there is a chasm in opinion on which direction the organization should take. If there is a new CBA, it will be a very interesting year at Baptist Sports park. I will be right here at MCM to discuss it. I’ll rec’d this post.

by jmkiii58 on Jan 10, 2011 12:13 PM CST reply actions