Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Watch Out For Cowboys UDFA Tim Benford

Tennessee Titans Daily Links: Bum Phillips, Jerry Glanville and Warren Moon Weigh Talk Edition

Tennessee_titans_30x21 Oilers legend Warren Moon told John Glennon that he's reached out to Vince Young several times to help him through his NFL career, but hasn't gotten any significant interest from the mercurial Titans QB. Moon is concerned that Young has too many people around him giving him bad direction and advice, and could use a mentor to help him through his NFL career. Problem is, VY seems to have zero interest in building that kind of relationship...

Tennessee_titans_30x21 Paul Kuharsky, who has taken his fair share of shots at Vince Young but had softened on him mid-way through this season, offers his view on John Glennon's conversation on Warren Moon. Kuharsky sees this as further proof that the people surrounding and guiding Young are doing him a grave disservice by fueling this paranoid view that everyone is out to get him. Young could use an experienced mentor more than just about any 'starting' NFL player avoidance, but he's shown no interest in being helped by Moon, and has long been thought to have been tuning Steve McNair out shortly before his untimely death. Paul K does have a decent point here in that there's a big difference between being 'insulated' from the outside world and being 'cut-off'.

Tennessee_titans_30x21 Talks over the future of Jeff Fisher's tenure with the Titans continue among Adams, Underwood and Reinfeldt. Jim Wyatt tweeted yesterday that he expects a decision to come down this week, and theirs a growing feeling that Adams may indeed keep Fisher in the end. I'd love to offer my opinion on this, but I'd hate to piss anyone off.

Jump!

Star-divide

Tennessee_titans_30x21 The media and front office executives aren't the only ones who are lobbying Bud Adams to keep Fisher for at least one more year; former Oilers coaches Bum Phillips and Jerry Glanville believe Fisher is still the man for the job. Glanville says that Fisher and Young should carve out a working relationship like he did with Andre Rison in Atlanta, but Phillips (whom Bud Adams still regret firing back in 1980), had some very pointed words:

"After 16 years of coaching, to think Jeff Fisher all of a sudden can't handle people? The player has to get along with the coach. The coach doesn't have to get along with the players. He just has to coach them and do what he thinks is right,'' said the 87-year-old Phillips, who coached under Adams from 1975-80 and was fired by him after three consecutive playoff trips.

"A quarterback needs to be able to lead the team. Not only to play good, but to get other people to play good. And obviously after five years Jeff doesn't believe (Young) can do that. I would go with the coach. … There's no way Bud will find a better coach than Jeff Fisher.''

Tennessee_titans_30x21 Jeff Fisher basically delivered Marc Mariani to the Titans' scouting staff, and now the Pro Bowl returner is waiting with bated breath to see if the man who gave him his NFL break will keep his job.

Tennessee_titans_30x21 The Titans signed S Myron Rolle, RB Herb Donaldson, G Ryan Durand, DE Pannel Egboh, TE Riar Geer, G Jeff Hansen and CB Chris Hawkins to futures contracts, meaning the players can workout at the Titans facilities and the Titans will retain their rights through next year. It's basically the off-season practice squad.

Tennessee_titans_30x21 How bad was Gary Brakcett's hit on Titans long snapper Ken Amato last Sunday? It cracked Amato's helmet, and the Colts are nervously waiting to see if the linebacker will be suspended of Sunday's wildcard game.

 

Email me at mcmaugustwest@gmail.com and follow me on Twitter @AugustWest_MCM

Comment 295 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

The more time passes

it seems more likely that the HC will stay and the QB may be on his way out. Bud cant wait to long while other Organizations snatch up all the good/new HC’s. Whatever happens I just want it to be soon….i cant take this crap anymore!

"The best years the Titans franchise has ever seen were the years when Steve was our quarterback."

by MexicanTitanFreak on Jan 5, 2011 10:48 AM CST reply actions  

I am starting

to beleive that also. This is taking quite a while to decide. It makes me think either 1) Bud is letting Fisher lay out his game plan to him on how he would handle next season’s coaching staff, personel, qb situation, etc. or 2) Bud is quietly reaching out to coaching candidates who might be interested and see if they would be willing to coach/babysit VY.
If Fisher is kept, I just hope he is not signed to an extension. That way Vince moves on this year, and if Fisher continues with his same stubborn ways, he is out the door next year when his contract expires.

by Stormcrow on Jan 5, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Well for me, a good portion around here are more knowledgable about the NFL and Titans.

I have only been a fan 7 seasons to date, and I have never played football. I used to lurk before I joined because I enjoyed coming to this site daily. I joined when I felt comfortable enough to ask questions.

by Los Blancos Chicca on Jan 5, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Rec'd

Personally I like hearing August’s opinions.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree with this as well

It’s your opinion and the fact that you can’t share it without being personally attacked despite all your contributions here is utterly ridiculous. Since the “incident” this blog has turned from a lot of playful banter and informed reasoning to just unreasonable attacks. Whether you’re a VY guy, a fisher guy, a fuck em both, or love em both, anyone should be able to post their OPINION here without being attacked. I know all the contributors here have tryed to make this point, but it’s getting out of hand. Believe it or not everyone on this blog should want the same thing, and that is the success of the titans, so let’s get our shit together and cut out the bullshit.

I'd say he's more snape than voldemort, in that everybody thought he was evil, but they could not have won with out him

by z24lax on Jan 5, 2011 11:09 AM CST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I was thinking the same thing.

In the end football is only a game (It’s hard for me to accept this myself sometimes) and nothing we say or do on this blog will ever effect what the Titans front office says or does (This is also hard for all of us to accept judging from the traffic here lately). In short getting your panties in a bunch (sorry members of the female persuasion) over someone else’s opinion or one of the moderator’s here makes me want to beat the living sh…. I mean ignore what you say and not come to one place that actually makes me think the Tennessee Titans matter to someone else but me.

by asbestos_man on Jan 5, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Hear, hear!!

What? A girl can't like AND understand football?
Shoot, I live in the South where that just comes with the territory!

by Titans_Girl on Jan 5, 2011 9:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm why?

Is Moon close to Bud? Or do you think Bud will listen to Moon because of his history with the team?

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 10:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Bud inducted Moon into the Ring of Honor

I am sure the execs are telling Bud that Vince won’t listen to Moon. I am sure that is not helping Vince’s case.

Official MCM Hater!

by gramsey712 on Jan 5, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

^true

cant be helping

On a side note i found my 90’s W.Moon poster over Xmas at parents house. Still a in good condition. “Bad moon rising”

"The best years the Titans franchise has ever seen were the years when Steve was our quarterback."

by MexicanTitanFreak on Jan 5, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

In that case, Warren Moon may have done yet another good thing for this franchise.

But no one really knows how the mind of Bud Adams works, if at all.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

I would imagine Bum Phillips has more pull with Adams than anyone else he could talk to.

For one thing, Phillips was the coach during the franchise’s most successful period, and for another, he and Adams are the same age. Adams strikes me as a guy who’s big on experience.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

Storyteller's Playbook
Charter Member of the Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame

by DannoE on Jan 5, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

with this team maybe

but it can also open a Vick like oportunity…where if he is willing to get a guy to advice him, like dungy for vick, he may get an oportunity from somebody who is willing to take a chance on his talent and on the problem being bad influences around him who can be taken out…

TOUCHDOWN...GUESS WHO...KENNY BRITT!

by Knoxvillage on Jan 5, 2011 10:59 AM CST up reply actions  

That may be true as well

Because Moon is very complimental of Young’s talent.

Official MCM Hater!

by gramsey712 on Jan 5, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

How can you not be?

Even Fisher is complimentary of VY’s talent. Talent has NEVER been the issue.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

Storyteller's Playbook
Charter Member of the Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame

by DannoE on Jan 5, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions  

The articles make it pretty clear that "He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named" has insulated himself with a close circle.

And that circle coddles and apparently isn’t letting an all-time great like Warren Moon reach out and try to help and advise him. The opportunity is definitely there, but it seems pretty clear “The Nameless” isn’t interested in hearing it.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

I think August nailed it with:
the people surrounding and guiding Young are doing him a grave disservice by fueling this paranoid view that everyone is out to get him.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep. Voldemort could also look to Vick, who I have read several times in interviews has cut ties with former associates who caused him to get in trouble.

Gotta cut the fat off the edges sometimes.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

It’s a different sport, but Carmelo Anthony (another #3 pick btw) was surrounded by absolute scum in his inner circle and they almost got him in major trouble, then he ditched those fools and matured and has been an all star ever since.

I'd say he's more snape than voldemort, in that everybody thought he was evil, but they could not have won with out him

by z24lax on Jan 5, 2011 11:15 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

i cant remember for sure but

wasnt one of the guys vick “cut ties” with involved in that whole shooting or assault or whatever it was at vick’s birthday party?

by Champcc1 on Jan 5, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

yup

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

DO you remember what it took for Vick to make that change?

Being convicted of a felony. Plus, not associating with anyone who was involved in that dog slaughtering enterprise was a stipulation of his parole.

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, it's not the same situation with Young, but a similar concept of cutting ties to those who are enabling you.

I think he is done here, but I would hate for it to take something on the same level as Vick for him to change. IF he is to change though, he needs to sever those ties on his own merit.

Interesting sidenote…one of Young’s recent tweets is telling someone to look to Vick and himself as examples.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I think this is quite a distinct possibility.

It is possible that VY could wake up once he’s cut from the Titans and capitalize on his ability. No one denies he’s talented. I just don’t see how he can get that wake up call if he’s in a Titan uniform next year. Just like Vick, it will be with another team.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

If you listen closely

You can hear all of Texas screaming at their computers once reading the links today.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 10:56 AM CST reply actions  

Youre telling me

for me its just a couple of cubicals away in any direction!

"The best years the Titans franchise has ever seen were the years when Steve was our quarterback."

by MexicanTitanFreak on Jan 5, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

im not in texas and i was screaming at a whole page of fisher love

especially when its written by a guy who doesnt really love fisher, just will hold on to him to get rid of vince. it doesnt make sense. obviously the guys fisher is tight with and other head coaches are going to lobby around one of their own. why it makes the news i dont know, but them, and vince, do not top whats been abundantly clear – fisher needs to go

by mattd97 on Jan 5, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

On a non-"Voldemort" note...

Gary Brackett ABSOLUTELY should be suspended for their game. If the NFL is going to make a fuss over “defenseless receivers” what about that hit, which was pretty much the epitome of what they’re cracking down on. It was completely uncalled for.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 11:05 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Agree completely.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Agree.

And that is the exact reason why they will fine him 15 hundred bucks and not suspend him at all.

Official MCM Hater!

by gramsey712 on Jan 5, 2011 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes sir you are correct.

"The best years the Titans franchise has ever seen were the years when Steve was our quarterback."

by MexicanTitanFreak on Jan 5, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Completely impossible example, but anyway....

assume that Tom Brady plays for the Titans, and for some wierd reason he was on the kicking team. Now imagine he makes it down the field first just like Amato. If you’re still in the same imaginary bubble with me, do you have any doubt a hit like that would get Brackett suspended for the playoffs?

Don’t ask how my mind got there…you may not get back….I never have.

by HitMan83 on Jan 5, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Stepping on Bradys shoes gets you a 100grand fine and a season long suspension.

Manning and Brady are untouchable unless you want a roughing the passer penalty.

by titansfan7 on Jan 5, 2011 7:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Anyone see that Jim Harbaugh will be asking for more than 6 mil a year?

That is ridiculously high. I know he’s the top coaching option out there, but at that price I wonder if he’ll limit his market. Would teams really be willing to ship out 6 mil per year for a college coach?

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 11:11 AM CST reply actions  

His stock has never been higher.

Allegedly he’s put out that Michigan is offering him in the neighborhood of $5 million, so he’s using that to get a higher deal from an NFL team. Can’t really blame him since he may never be this hot as a candidate again.

Didn’t Spurrier get a crap ton of money when he jumped to Washington?

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah but

For Spurrier that was because he had Daddy Warbucks Snyder throwing it at him

"The best years the Titans franchise has ever seen were the years when Steve was our quarterback."

by MexicanTitanFreak on Jan 5, 2011 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

True.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

I was pretty young when Spurrier was hired so I don't recall how much he got.

And I don’t blame Harbaugh for getting the max he can out of some NFL team- I and I think everyone else would do the exact same thing. But I would be leery of paying a college coach that much money.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

It doesn't matter if you limit your market

….as long as the market still includes ONE team. Of course 6 million is a negotiating point. He’ll take less if the teams available start thinning out.

by HitMan83 on Jan 5, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Carson Palmer will return to the Bengals.

On the bright side, one less team ahead of us in the draft needing a QB. On the downside…I was really hoping they would cut him and he could come here as a stop-gap guy.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 11:15 AM CST reply actions  

If this all pans out the way it looks like...

… then what are we going to talk about next year? I mean, other than Fisher/VY there wasn’t much else to talk about this year. The Moss signing had potential, but that fizzled.

by Gas-House Gorilla on Jan 5, 2011 11:20 AM CST reply actions  

On the contrary

I think the level of Titans discussion will increase once we finally move past the same two people we have discussed for years now.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

^ This!

We can talk about CJ…what could be our best group of WR/TEs ever…(hopefully) a healthy and improved defense…a new QB…

The possibilities are endless.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Britt and A.J. Green!

fingers crossed

Get 'em.
"it ain't no sin in goin to da scrip club."
Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame, Class of 2010

by danielreese05 on Jan 5, 2011 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.

I love the thought of this tandem. Two big physical jump-ball type receivers. It almost negates needing QB accuracy, just throw it there direction and let them come down with it. But considering we went with Britt in 09’ and the D struggled this season, I just can’t see us going with AJ. Though it would be awesome to be the only team in our division with that kind of duo.

by J3G77 on Jan 5, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

ouch

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

u must rec this

i did

I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and I have worms.

BOOM! You've been pharmacisted!

by DonFrancisco on Jan 5, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

My only concern

Is if things continue on as it looks like they are going to , and Vince is sent packing (thank you lord). That in an effort to make up for that, we draft a QB at 8 who might not be worth it, to make up for this VY debacle. This is definately not the ELI, Rivers, Big Ben draft for QB’s. So I don’t think compensating for VY’s shortcomings, by drafting the next best QB on the board is in the best interest of this franchise.

I’m sure Fisher, and management realize this, but it’d be a shame to stike out on another first round QB, especially with thier asking price being so high.

It’s going to be an interesting off season to say the least.

by Jeff Fisher's Power Stache on Jan 5, 2011 11:22 AM CST reply actions  

Just an FYI...that's Andrew Perloff who did that, he's pretty much a joke and goes against common sense just to rile people up.

I don’t see any way they take Green if he is there (I don’t think he will be), unless Matt Millen joins the front office.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh you're right, the other piece was done by Banks.

Andrew Perloff is awful.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Andrew Perloff

is Mclovin on the Dan Patrick Show if you listen to his radio program.

USC > UT (Both of them)

by SoCalTitan on Jan 5, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

And he's got the whiniest voice!

Love Dan Patrick and most the crew…don’t like him.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Gabbert looks good

Mallett reminds me too much of a drew bledsoe statue, aj green would be awesome especially if we can steal locker in the second round, he might still be the second best qb in this draft

I'd say he's more snape than voldemort, in that everybody thought he was evil, but they could not have won with out him

by z24lax on Jan 5, 2011 11:56 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Bum Phillips lost any credibility with this one:
There’s no way Bud will find a better coach than Jeff Fisher.

by TNTitan89 on Jan 5, 2011 11:36 AM CST reply actions  

No kidding.

I love Bum but really?

Vince Young is the new politics and religion.

by Titan9 on Jan 5, 2011 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

What does Bum.

Have to do with Jeff Fishers bad coaching!

by datboybevans on Jan 5, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Are you talking to me?

Vince Young is the new politics and religion.

by Titan9 on Jan 5, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Bum loves Fisherball

Earl Campbell’s career should be testimony to that.

L'enfer, c'est les autres.

by Strangely Enough on Jan 5, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

with the anger he ran with

I’m not surprised. He seriously gets overlooked as one of the best backs of all time. dude was a serious baller.

Get 'em.
"it ain't no sin in goin to da scrip club."
Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame, Class of 2010

by danielreese05 on Jan 5, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

The National media and former coaches speak of Fisher as if he is a great coach. Nothing could be further from the truth. I don’t get. Titans fans have every right to want to run VY out of town. To keep AFisher is insane given the consistent meltown of his teams over the years, no SB, a 5-6 playoff record and his numerous run ins with players (Bullock, Scaife Young etc.). How many times in his tenure has Fisher lost his locker room or the players quit in games.

The Titans will never win a SB with Jeff Fisher. The Titans will always be mediocre with Fisher at the helm.

by Ravens One on Jan 5, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Can't Believe that...

All these former Titans and Titans coaches are trying to save Fishers Job based on things he did in the past! Honestly speaking why would Bum Phillips want Bud Adams to make the right decision by firing Jeff Fisher when Adams Fired him after only five seasons? May Bum likes seeing us not make it past the first round of playoffs if we even make the playoffs. And Warren Moon is not saying not to keep VY he is saying that it would only take a good mentor to help VY become an elite QB so how does that say let VY go! Moon wants both to stay! But there’s not nearly enough evidence to keep Fisher here! There are plenty of coaches out there even if we have to go find a College coach to become the HC and believe me there are plenty of good college coaches out there!

by datboybevans on Jan 5, 2011 11:43 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

Andrew Luck is!

I gotta be optimistic right now…

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Yup

Born in H-town and daddy played for Bud and the oilers…..you never know with the crazy old man!

"The best years the Titans franchise has ever seen were the years when Steve was our quarterback."

by MexicanTitanFreak on Jan 5, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

With the weapons we have...it'd actually be a pretty ideal situation for a rookie QB.

I trust Munchak (IF Fisher is back) to fix the offensive line issues, with a healthy Britt, a more experienced Williams, Cook and Stephens and this guy Chris Johnson in the backfield…there’s room for a rookie QB to be successful. Maybe not put up 200 yards a game, but be effective as a rookie.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Because we saw how awesome Rusty did.

Vince Young is the new politics and religion.

by Titan9 on Jan 5, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Would a first round rookie compare to a sixth round pick?

That’s an unrealistic comparision. If a player is picked higher, it’s logical to think that he should be able to play better than a sixth rounder.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

You mean like Tom Brady?

Vince Young is the new politics and religion.

by Titan9 on Jan 5, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Brady did not start until his second year.

And even then it took a season-ending injury to Drew Bledsoe for him to an opportunity.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

product of the system

Belichek took a guy who didn’t even start in college and got 11 wins out of him.

Get 'em.
"it ain't no sin in goin to da scrip club."
Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame, Class of 2010

by danielreese05 on Jan 5, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

cassell

I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and I have worms.

BOOM! You've been pharmacisted!

by DonFrancisco on Jan 5, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

right

I’m talking Cassel. dude didn’t make a start from the time he left high school to the time Brady’s knee blew up.

Get 'em.
"it ain't no sin in goin to da scrip club."
Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame, Class of 2010

by danielreese05 on Jan 5, 2011 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

comparison only works

if Brady started in NE in his rookie year

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

So

you’re taking one statistical outlier (Brady) and expecting to see his results on another sixth round pick (Rusty), when all the previous evidence suggested that Rusty’s stats would end up like the statistical average- pretty darn bad. And don’t forget that Brady was in his second year, not his first, when he started to play.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Never tell Fisher the odds.

Vince Young is the new politics and religion.

by Titan9 on Jan 5, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Where are you going with this?

We’re talking about rookie QBs.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I was kind of wondering the same thing.

Vince Young is the new politics and religion.

by Titan9 on Jan 5, 2011 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

My point: You (and most of us, including myself) had an unrealistic idea of what Rusty Smith’s stats would be when he got playing time.

Your point: ? Sixth round QBs are expected to play like Tom Brady? Something about Fisher? I have no idea what you’re trying to say anymore.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

My point:

Is that we have no reason to think our situation is ideal for a rookie QB to be successful.

Vince Young is the new politics and religion.

by Titan9 on Jan 5, 2011 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

And I opposed that by saying

a first round rookie would be expected to have more success than Rusty Smith did.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure, of course that is the idea.

But how many first round QBs have done well in the last 10 years? I’m not arguing for the sake of arguing, I’m just curious.

Vince Young is the new politics and religion.

by Titan9 on Jan 5, 2011 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, off recent history, QBs who have had success in their rookie year:

You’ve got Bradford, Sanchez, Ryan, Flacco in the last three years. I’m sure there are more as you go back in history. The list expands if you consider the second years of their career.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Roethlisberger got to the AFC Championship his rookie year.

Super Bowl in year two.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

The Steelers defense & running game got him to the AFC Championship

and his first Super Bowl. He was easily the 18th or so best player on that starting roster. Since then he’s made huge strides.

Some variation of that is true of everyone on that list above not named Ryan or Bradford (who still haven’t won anything yet, though they will).

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 4:48 PM CST up reply actions  

right

the same Rusty Smith who was hailed as the best QB prospect in years, right?

Get 'em.
"it ain't no sin in goin to da scrip club."
Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame, Class of 2010

by danielreese05 on Jan 5, 2011 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm sure they're all wrong and

datboyevans is right! It must be a Bum Phillips conspiracy!

by PA-Titan on Jan 5, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Apart from Harbaugh

Where are the “plenty of good college coaches out there”?

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Spurrier, Saban and Butch Davis have caused NFL owners to largely fear college coaches, and college coaches to fear failure in the NFL.

Look at Kirk Ferentz, wasn’t he the next big thing out of college? He’s still at Iowa. Chris Peterson is still at Boise State. Hell, Urban Meyer never got a sniff from the NFL as far as I know. Granted, we can argue all day about “college guys” and “NFL guys”, but I think the recent failure of successful coaches at the NFL level has caused owners and GMs to shy away from successful college coaches and go with coordinators and those who have been in the NFL and have experience and success at that level.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh yeah! Especially Petrino.

And jury is still out on Pete Carroll round two. I wouldn’t classify his first NFL stint as successful.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Can I

ask this.

Is it possible to have faith in guys who have been there done that, doing that? Bum has been an NFL coach, GM’s and other front office guys see what goes into coaching and what makes good and bad coaches.

So instead of just dismissing These people can’t you just have faith that they might just know and understand what it is that makes Jeff Fisher and good coach?

Yes there are media saying it’s time for fisher to go. But none say he is a bad coach, just that he probably needs a change. But to dismiss what is becoming overwhelming support for fisher probably isn’t the right choice.

and the longer it goes the more it seems that Bud has always wanted to keep Fisher and might be stuggling with the choice over what to do with Young and that he would be admitting a mistake

by white02slpss on Jan 5, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

That depends

on if their opinions/facts fit the answer you already have in mind.

/GW’d

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

If the fact came out that we actually beat Baltimore 2 years ago

and went on to win the Super Bowl, I would change my answer in a heartbeat.

by joshuaboone on Jan 5, 2011 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

but then again, in the words of Bum Phillips

“That’s just my opinion now, and I’m just an unemployed fan.’’

by joshuaboone on Jan 5, 2011 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm trying to unlock the italics, so I deleted two comments:

I like the Comment About Not Adding Your Opinion After adding your opinoin under the 2 previous articles. I know this is a shot at me, so I’ll respond. I have no problem with you stating your opinion, but I do have a problem with you acting like your opinion is proved by the article when it’s not even close. Here’s an example of your commentary
      Jim Wyatt writes that Vince Young eats at Mcdonalds. This is just more proof that VY is an immature little kid that cannot control his emotions and will never be a great NFL Quarterback. Anyone who has seen Supersize Me knows thath Big Macs are bad for you, and the fact that VY still eats there is proof once and for all that he is a quitter and the team needs to get him out of Nashvill as soon as possible
I know I exxagerate to the point where it’s not even funny, but I honestly feel that many times your opinion has nothing to do with the article and that the ranting should be saved for the comments or for a seperate post. But again, you don’t have to change it, I’ll keep coming back and calling you on it though. I’m picky but not stupid

The above by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 1:03 PM EST reply actions

You’re being ridiculous. If August wants to point to any part of the growing stack of evidence against Vince Young, and use that to support his argument that VY should be gone, I don’t see the issue.
     Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

The above by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions

Official MCM Hater!

by gramsey712 on Jan 5, 2011 12:13 PM CST reply actions  

Sorry

Not Sure what i did wrong, but i didn’t want to prevent anyone from replying to my comments. Seemed to have worked for WTF.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

It was some kind of formatting thing.

I have seen it on other SB Nation blogs….it has something to do with leaving the italics open on the back end.

I don’t know if you saw it, but if I had not fixed it, every single comment below yours would have been in italics.

But like I said, I can’t tell you for sure what was wrong!

Official MCM Hater!

by gramsey712 on Jan 5, 2011 2:43 PM CST up reply actions  

just like having the guy who has kept fisher for 20 years say that he supports fisher

to have former coaches say they support him also means very little. of course theyre going to say that. theyre not gonna come out and rip on one of their own. its about as surprising as john gruden really liking a guy

by mattd97 on Jan 5, 2011 12:18 PM CST reply actions  

So you have no faith

that they might actually know what it takes and what they are talking about? Just supporting him because he’s a coach?

by white02slpss on Jan 5, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

i have faith in the fact that a coach will support another coach

and who cares if hes a good coach or not, the evidence is clearly written on the wall that he is no longer the RIGHT coach. the players dont fit his system and he refuses to change his system

by mattd97 on Jan 5, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Youngs twitter went crazy when this story dropped.

hater this and hater that. The more I read his twitter the more he reminds me of a 13 year old emo girl.

by CJ2K shrine on Jan 5, 2011 12:20 PM CST reply actions  

Its what he's been taught and what he believes.

Every person who isn’t madly supporting him is a hater.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Was that the real Young or Fake Young?

Cause Fake Young is always hatin’…to my utter delight.

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

We've had five-game losing streaks for twelve years now...and in no way is that depressing.

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 5, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

The beauty and horror that is Twitter

Really gives you window-view of the mind of the Twitt(ee).

L'enfer, c'est les autres.

by Strangely Enough on Jan 5, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

VY = Emo Kitteh!

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

it was a Candian Sports HOF induction or something like that

I had to crop out Mark Messier (sp?) to his left.

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

You spelled it right.

You guys don’t wear poppies?

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh geeze never mind.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Nope.

We don’t even have a WWI memorial.

by dgx on Jan 5, 2011 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

When is all this crap about

VY’s “circle” preventing him from this, making him do that, blah blah. VY is GROWN ASS MAN. If he has a “circle” it’s because he wants it there. VY is NOT a victim and can make his own damn decisions.

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 1:05 PM CST reply actions  

I don't think anyone called him a victim.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

blaming all his actions

on his nebulous “circle” insinuates that he is the “victim” of the people’s advice. This I reject. VY’s actions and decisions are VY’s. period.

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

UTDEEZY08

Hang on, let me make sure we’re on the same page: you’re upset that I linked an article stating that several Titans executives (and obviously the head coach and offensive coordinator) have basically told Bud that they need to take Fisher’s side in this spat because Vince Young isn’t the franchise QB Bud Adams thinks he is. Subsequently, I stated that this is further proof that VY can’t hack it right now in the NFL because experienced NFL personnel people (who have watched Vince behind the scenes for 5 season) would rather tell Bud something he doesn’t want to hear (and ask him to swallow over $10 million in VY’s salary next season), than get on Bud’s good side by siding with VY?

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 1:07 PM CST reply actions  

We're on a Computer

If I could see you, I’d argue with you face to face and then go have a beer with you afterwards (metaphor: I don’t drink). As long as you don’t specifically attack me or my fam, I won’t take it personally. I may adamantly disagree and gripe and complain, but I won’t take it personally.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

both you and our family are crazy

I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and I have worms.

BOOM! You've been pharmacisted!

by DonFrancisco on Jan 5, 2011 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

i wrote our instead of your

that’s what i get for trying to be funny

I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and I have worms.

BOOM! You've been pharmacisted!

by DonFrancisco on Jan 5, 2011 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

August is so obviously on Fisher's payroll...

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

It's so simple what's going on here...

Nobody want JF fired because they are afraid they will be let go also! Tail covering Tail!

by datboybevans on Jan 5, 2011 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Bum got fired 30 years ago

I think he’s safe.

L'enfer, c'est les autres.

by Strangely Enough on Jan 5, 2011 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Yea I stated his case in another forum!

I wasn’t talking about Bum, Moon or anyone not on the roster! I meant players and staff pretty self explanatory!

by datboybevans on Jan 5, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

why do you think

the GM, VP, and HC are somehow a package deal?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Friends hate to see friends go!

So let me guess you want Fisher to stay too!

by datboybevans on Jan 5, 2011 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

please find one single post of mine

that expresses the “fish needs to stay” idea… go fetch

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

who's defending fisher?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Key word...

Fired so why would you listen to a guy that you fired?

by datboybevans on Jan 5, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Because Bud regretted firing him?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

what does that have to do

with your original question of “why would bud listen to a guy he fired”?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

yep, it's all a conspiracy

the stache-voodoo is strong

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Didn't VY start after 0-6?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

because you make no sense

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

GMs and Sr. Exec VP

tend to outrank the HC in a football organization.

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

lol

Bud and VY can run the team!!!1

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Funny how people think I really..

Care if VY stays or goes…I just simply tired of losing and if VY gotta go in order for Fisher to go so be it! But you can’t blame JF losing on VY! JF gotta go! I can handle VY at QB but I can’t have JF coaching he too damn conservative and full of excuses! I haven’t found one guy that can prove why they think JF is such a good coach!

by datboybevans on Jan 5, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

"prove" why they think?

How the hell do you do that?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

It's got nothing to do with Fisher

I just found the statement “prove why they think” was absurd.

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

It's absurd?

Kills me how foolish you are! If that’s absurd then it absurd that people are actually fighting to keep a losing coach around and can’t explain why he deserves to stay. Along with why people want to get rid of the QB that we have the most sucess with! Along with the only reason why people want VY gone is because he got mad for losing! Fisher has done nothing to win his job. Like I said cut them both I really don’t care as long a Jeff Fisher is gone!

by datboybevans on Jan 5, 2011 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

No. Think hard

It’s not possible to prove why someone thinks anything. They can tell you why, but how can they possibly prove to you that is really the why of why they think.

“Prove why they think” <—- nonsense

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

WOW

Your really serious! You say that ridiculous crap to try and be right!

by datboybevans on Jan 5, 2011 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

not trying

it is right

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

no not an opinion, fact

can you PROVE why I am thinking what I am thinking? Not why YOU think I’m thinking what I’m thinking. The key word is PROVE. I don’t think you know what it means.

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

This Comment is Wrong on So Many Levels

First of all, I took no issue with you linking your opinion to things that were stated in the article. I took issue with statements like this “VY’s sense of entitlement, lack of consistent work ethic and continued inability to mature emotionally or mentally will hamstring this organization as long as Bud Adams allows it to”. There was nothing in the article even close to saying that. Furthermore, all the article did was say that they back Fisher, not that they don’t believe in VY. It could have simply been “Mr. Adams, I would prefer if we keep Jeff Fisher as our coach, even if that means getting rid of VY.” Or, “I trust Jeff Fisher’s ability to evaluate a QB. If he says VY isn’t it, then he isn’t”. But you go ranting about how they’re willing to stand in front of Bud Adams in their underwear while being tickle torchered (which also isn’t in the article) just to get VY out of Nashville. Basically, by exxagerating and adding your opinion, you misrepresent what the article says to people who may not have the time to read it. Understand now?

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Is there proof that this is wrong:
VY’s sense of entitlement, lack of consistent work ethic and continued inability to mature emotionally or mentally will hamstring this organization as long as Bud Adams allows it to"

That line has a lot of evidence supporting it. The opposite does not.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not in that article

The article says absolutely nothing about how the front office feels about VY, just that they prefer FIsher.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't see the problem.

Read the article. Form your own opinion. And then continue reading August’s post. Its not like he made some brash, irrational statement.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

That's Your Opinion

I think some of the statements were irrational. I don’t want to be the content police, just wanted to state my opionion about making your opiionoins more obvious. Something else to make the day go by.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I want to make sure I'm talking about the same thing.

In your mind, his irrational statement was that VY’s sense of entitlement, lack of work ethic and immaturity is setting this franchise back.

With all due respect, I don’t see how that could possibly be construed as irrational. Young has boatloads of damning articles- if you opt to ignore every single report out there, that’s your choice. But August has a lot of proof supporting his “irrational statement”.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

what is an "irrational statement"?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

The Reasons I believe it's Irrational

VY has won 30 games and lost 18….. Not hamstringing the organization
VY was selected as a captain…… He must have worked at some point

And I think “is setting the franchise back” basically blames the last 10 years of mediocrity on the fact that VY is the QB and not the fact that Fisher is the coach.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

This has nothing to do with what August wrote.

If you want to take what he’s written and extrapolate to “the last 10 years of mediocrity on the fact that VY is the QB” you are clearly miscontruing what he wrote. Setting the organization back means the longer this continues the longer we postpone success.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I think what UTDEEZY08 is getting at is

August needs/wants to Link whatever articles he finds relevant for that day, but keep his opinions on the direction of the article to himself (especially about *The Nameless and Fisher battle), if he has an opinion he wants to talk about, bring it up on the in the comments.
I also find some of the comments he writes in the Links only fuel arguments based off the match he’s thrown into the fire, because it seems those comments are the opinion of the collective group of MCM, which they are not.
AmIright? or is my cold medicine taking over…?

InVINCEable

by StPrattrick on Jan 5, 2011 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Not Quite My Point

I’m just saying it’s hard to tell the difference on 1 or 2 occassions. I like him putting his opinion, when I know it’s his opinion. When he makes it seem like his opinion is what the article says, then I complain. Doesnt happen often, or at least I don’t catch it often

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 5:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Well that's what I mean

I don’t think I am explaining myself correctly, but I think we are on the same page

InVINCEable

by StPrattrick on Jan 5, 2011 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Why should my opinion be confined to the limits of the article

I was using the article to make a point related to that well-shared opinion. I’m not seeing where I misrepresented anything in the article.

I stated what happened per the article.
I stated why I think that event happened.
I stated my opinion on the significance of what happened.

Been doing that for years and nobody else seems to mind.

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe You're Right

I guess when you disagree with someone’s interpretation of an event or article you’re more likely to “mind” them stating their opinion. Think about some of the other sites you have read and thought “this guys an idiot, he’s completely off-base”. Even though you know he has the freedom to put his opinion wherever he wants, you still wish that his opionion wouldn’t be the article and your opionion is 1 or 500 comments. I don’t usually read all the articles you post, I just read your summary and decide whether I want to read it. So if others are like me, they may get a false opinion of what’s actually in the article if you don’t clearly seperate your opionion from whats in the article.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Let me Clarify

When I say “I don’t read all the articles you post”, I mean i don’t go to every link. I do read your segments daily though.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm Probably the ONly ONe

And I DEFINITELY APPRECIATE that you take out the time to post all the articles, I just don’t agree with misrepresenting whats in the article.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Nobody's Pissed

I just figured August brought it up because he wanted me to reply and explain myself, and so I did. I hadn’t thought about it since yesterday to be honest.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

None Taken

I feel like I’m on the plane scene in Anger Management where everyone keeps telling me to lower my voice. Keep waiting for someone to taze me.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

It'll be hard for Adams to ignore Moon

and Bum, and the whole chorus of others who are telling him the same thing. Any chance Young had for sticking around was based upon the Bud deciding to hire a HC and say “do what you need to do to get through to Vince”. The fact that Vince isn’t interested in hearing from a 1st ballot HoFer makes the case that he’s a hard guy to get through to.

Just a side note – one guy that I’ll bet hates Vince is Cam Newton – Vince has cost that guy a lot of money.

AJS

by CalTitan on Jan 5, 2011 1:51 PM CST reply actions  

Cam Newton's "parents" cost him a lot of money

First round QB busts don’t seem to be hurting the market. Of course, that may change between now and next season.

And, yeah, that is a lot of high profile former Adams employees going public.

L'enfer, c'est les autres.

by Strangely Enough on Jan 5, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Amato

BTW – who is the back-up to Long Snaper Ken Amato?

I never really thought about it until that hit on Sunday.

by TitanRob on Jan 5, 2011 1:59 PM CST reply actions  

Mathews took the snaps

so I’d have to guess it was Velasco when he was the no. 2 center

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

TV dudes were saying Stevens might do it

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

This is For August West

In Case you missed my reply above and thought I was ducking you. Here it is again…

First of all, I took no issue with you linking your opinion to things that were stated in the article. I took issue with statements like this "VY’s sense of entitlement, lack of consistent work ethic and continued inability to mature emotionally or mentally will hamstring this organization as long as Bud Adams allows it to". There was nothing in the article even close to saying that. Furthermore, all the article did was say that they back Fisher, not that they don’t believe in VY. It could have simply been "Mr. Adams, I would prefer if we keep Jeff Fisher as our coach, even if that means getting rid of VY." Or, "I trust Jeff Fisher’s ability to evaluate a QB. If he says VY isn’t it, then he isn’t". But you go ranting about how they’re willing to stand in front of Bud Adams in their underwear while being tickle torchered (which also isn’t in the article) just to get VY out of Nashville. Basically, by exxagerating and adding your opinion, you misrepresent what the article says to people who may not have the time to read it. Understand now?

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 2:49 PM CST reply actions  

are you really this butthurt over this?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Nope...

I just like to argue. I think I have a valid point, even if nobody else cares.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I replied above.

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

To be honest you're fabricating quite a bit of this now.
But you go ranting about how they’re willing to stand in front of Bud Adams in their underwear while being tickle torchered (which also isn’t in the article) just to get VY out of Nashville

A little over-the-top there don’t ya think?

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

My Point Exactly

Doesn’t it bother you that I claimed that August said the front office was "willing to stand Bud Adams in their underwear while being tickle torchered ", when he actually only said they would put their jobs on the line? I’m misrepresenting what he said to make my opinion stronger, but it would be hard to differentiate unless you read exactly what he said. And thus, my point about making it clear which part is your opionion and which part is fact.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Where did August misrepresent the article?

Did he claim his opinion was in the article?

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

IMO..... Yes

He links the article and then says “Basically, …………….”, which to me says that he is summarizing the article. It’s all semantics and I feel silly for still arguing about it, but I think I have a point, no mater how unimportant it is.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Check it OUt

“Basically the Titans’ Senior Executive Vice President, General Manager and Head Coach are all in agreement that Vince Young isn’t a franchise QB. They believe this so strongly that they’re willing to stand in front of Bud Adams, who has clung to VY like the most ardent of sycophants, and tell him so, even as it endangers their relationship with Bud and their future employment. "

This follows the link in the article. Nowhere does he say it’s his opinion, so in reading that I expected to read somewhere in the article that the guys in the front office would quit if VY stayed. In my opinion, this is not what the article says at all. Not even close

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:10 PM CST reply actions  

In Reply To WTF Above

Sorry, I didn’t hit reply before i started typing away.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

the whole "controversy" is sailing way over my head

How is that not obviously August’s opinion of the meeting? And the biggest question of all: so what?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Much To Do About Nothing

I would have been happy if August had just said “I’ll do what I want. Go back to your cubical”. But I find it hard to believe that you guys can honestly say August’s statements after the article did not misrepresent the article. It’s like me writing an article about how much i like Texas and then you linking that and writing beneath it “Clearly Tennessee is a piece of trash”. Even though that’s your opinion, it implies that somewhere in my article there will be bad stuff about Tennessee.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

in order to misrepresent

doesn’t there need to be an initial attempt to represent the contents?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

that's why you read the article...

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

No. That's why you read MCM Daily Links

So you can get a quick summary of several articles without having to read all of them. That’s why it’s troubling when the summary isn’ t accurate.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

nobody else reads them as summaries. I am sorry that you do.

I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and I have worms.

BOOM! You've been pharmacisted!

by DonFrancisco on Jan 5, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions  

^ this

I’ve always seen the daily link commentary as exactly that: commentary

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Right there.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Glad You Speak For Everybody Else

Show me another link in the daily links where August does not summarize the article in the 1st sentence or 2 right after it, if not in the sentence witht he link. Then I’ll believe that I’m the only one who doesn’t read every single article.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

By summary you mean reference content in the article?

Then isn’t all commentary then also a summary? Wouldn’t make much sense for August to comment on something entriely unrelated to the article when linking to the article. If that’s “summarizing” then so be it, but I think you are reaching.

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Nope

There are several articles where he provides a summary and then his opinion. Or sometimes he’ll highlight a certain phrase from the article. Generally, August’s statements tell me whether an article is worth reading for my busier days.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

But then I would think

the burden of verifying the statements’ worthiness would fall on you, since you are the one choosing to take them “no salt added”.

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I AGREE

And that’s why when I find out that he misrepresented what’s in the story, I come back and say that. Call it constructive criticism if u want

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 4:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Good One

I’m not so savy at the pictures thing or I’d have a good comeback. You got me there

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions  

glad you have enough time on your hands to enlessly rant about an issue that could easily be solved by you leaving

I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and I have worms.

BOOM! You've been pharmacisted!

by DonFrancisco on Jan 5, 2011 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

now now

no need to get snippy. This is a friendly argument about nothing!

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Apparantly we have an Equal Amount of Time

and I reserve the right to rant about whatever I want during my time. You don’t have to reply, just go back to flipping your burgers.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

i havent made as many comments as you

i am being snippy. i want to talk about titans stuff, even VY/FIsher stuff but not an analysis of August’s DailyLinks style

I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and I have worms.

BOOM! You've been pharmacisted!

by DonFrancisco on Jan 5, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

who forced you to reply

If you don’t want to talk about it, just scroll up or scroll down. Go to another post. The fact that you don’t want me to talk about it means you actually do care!

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 4:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

i care about this site b/c i way back with some the mods and i want it to be successful

but maybe i should not have chimed in, but this argument has gone on for 150+ comments before i did so i did give it plenty of time to go away before i did chime. That being said i won’t comment on it again, and i encourage you to do the same.

I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and I have worms.

BOOM! You've been pharmacisted!

by DonFrancisco on Jan 5, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

i am the best tiper i no

I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and I have worms.

BOOM! You've been pharmacisted!

by DonFrancisco on Jan 5, 2011 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

i also just realized i had a ridiculous run-on sentence

i am going to have to start editing

I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and I have worms.

BOOM! You've been pharmacisted!

by DonFrancisco on Jan 5, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Àre you accusing me

Of making the website less popular? I don’t understand how me criticising august makes anyone not want to read the site. The fact that there have been 150 comments on the subject (I don’t believe they’re all about this) is good for mcm, no?? Not a genious but I think a basic equation for blogs is more comments = good

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 4:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Actually I don't read every single article all the time.

That does not mean I can’t separate between August’s commentary and article content.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Let's check this statement out a little more then:
Basically the Titans’ Senior Executive Vice President, General Manager and Head Coach are all in agreement that Vince Young isn’t a franchise QB.

Doesn’t seem irrational to me. This is pretty well-documented.

They believe this so strongly that they’re willing to stand in front of Bud Adams, who has clung to VY like the most ardent of sycophants, and tell him so, even as it endangers their relationship with Bud and their future employment

Not irrational to me. Adams has clung to VY, and by opposing his presence on the team, does that increase their job security?

I really don’t see the issue here. Its obviously his opinion- one that is well supported.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Irrational Was Your Words

And I don’t have a problem with his opinion. I just think he misrepresented what was in the article.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

The link is in red.

If you want to read the article, click on it. If you want August’s opinion, read his posts- if not, just pass them by. This is only an issue to you.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I always Liked that

August goes throught the trouble of reading the article, giving you a summary of the article, and then telling you whether it’s worth reading and his opinion. It’s just hard to decipher the difference between the summary of the article and his opinion on a couple occassions. I would much rather August do exactly what he’s doing and let me be lazy and not read allt he stories than him only put links and make me read all the stories. But this is a blog and I’ll cry if I want to.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Damn, something needs to happen on the Titans front

we’ve resorted to arguing about the ontological status of daily link commentary…./sigh

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:29 PM CST reply actions  

LOL......... Good Point

Maybe the lack of news on the situation is wearing on me so much I’m becoming a little biatch. But I’m having fun with it, I hope i"m not ticking anyone else off.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

'tis all good

i’ll argue about nothing all day too

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

.......

I believe that VY and JF both must go because they are both poisoning this team and it’s fan base! For years we has argued about Jeff Fisher and Vince Young, so I say just cut them both! VY needs a fresh start and JF should just retire!

by datboybevans on Jan 5, 2011 3:33 PM CST reply actions  

why copy and paste this from the other thread?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Just ignore him.

Someone needs to tell Bud that Voldemort was the villain.

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 5, 2011 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

because it is some earth shattering new addition

to the VY/Fish/Titans body of thought?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

it's

whatever floats your boat guy..

by datboybevans on Jan 5, 2011 3:46 PM CST reply actions  

is UTDEEZY stealing all of your attention?

I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and I have worms.

BOOM! You've been pharmacisted!

by DonFrancisco on Jan 5, 2011 3:49 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

win!!1

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

hahahhahaha

Hey Look, a One line Signature.

by Ice0ne (CAJ) on Jan 5, 2011 5:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Not Much of A Debate

It’s pretty much me against the world. And I’m enjoying it

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

then you must check out my work

in the field of statistics. lol

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
Unofficial Favorite Person of fanoftheunderdogs
Bironas Fanboy

by rothbard on Jan 5, 2011 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Not that i "care that much"

Just something I felt like mentioning. I never threatened to leave the site or “attacked” august. Brought it up and he disagreed and made a comment in the daily links. And if you agree with me why didn’t you have my back!!!

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 4:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I agree with you and I've said it before in previous daily links

I think I just gave up after a while of arguing.
I posted this before on this tread…

I think what UTDEEZY08 is getting at is
August needs/wants to Link whatever articles he finds relevant for that day, but keep his opinions on the direction of the article to himself (especially about *The Nameless and Fisher battle), if he has an opinion he wants to talk about, bring it up on the in the comments.
I also find some of the comments he writes in the Links only fuel arguments based off the match he’s thrown into the fire, because it seems those comments are the opinion of the collective group of MCM, which they are not.
AmIright? or is my cold medicine taking over…?

InVINCEable

by StPrattrick on Jan 5, 2011 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Not saying he doesn't do a great job and all, i just want that to be well known.

I am just saying that leave the opinions for the comments (especially on sensitive subjects like The Nameless/Fisher saga). This stuff is way too touchy around here, that way we don’t have endless threads of people debating on who should have said what.

InVINCEable

by StPrattrick on Jan 5, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I apreciate the point of view

but that part of the way I do the links ain’t changing. That being said, I too look forward to the day where we don’t have to risk summoning 500 rabid comments by expressing our views on the Titans’ coaching situation, roster or front office.

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager. Follow me @AugustWest_MCM.

by August West on Jan 5, 2011 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I am not asking you to change the way you do the links, like I said I think you do a great job and I certainly don't want to take over the responsibility

but that being said, for now we are going to run the risk of summoning 500 rabid comments depending on how you illustrate what is in the link before even reading it. I guess if that’s the road you want to take then… yay 500,000 rabid-insane comments!!!!

InVINCEable

by StPrattrick on Jan 5, 2011 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

"Rabid COmments"?

I believe it was just one coment August, maybe 5 max. You asked me to explain my point of view and I did. I think you need to distinguish between “attacking” and disagreeing. I know your posse has your back, so I don’t wanna be banned for disagreeing with the way you post. But, as I stated above, I would prefer you do things exactly the same than if you stopped putting your opinions. I’ve only complained about 1 or 2 instances.

by UTDEEZY08 on Jan 5, 2011 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I think that's been the problem with this blog as of late

It’s gone from fun debates about our favorite team to dancing on a fine line of attacking and disagreeing…
We all love the same thing, The Titans, and we are all clearly willing to voice our opinions and fight for it. There shouldn’t be any “posse” that attacks to for disagreeing or debating on one persons comments. We all have to put this website into perspective, our opinions really don’t change anything other then the view points of other fans that enjoy reading stuff on here. Someone shouldn’t get shit for not knowing every football fact from the last 300 years, I’ve learned a lot about a team I thought I knew a lot about prior to coming here and I usually try to convey the same thing to other people trying to keep an open mind to everyones opinion.

InVINCEable

by StPrattrick on Jan 5, 2011 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The best Tennessee Titans coverage on the internet 365 days a year.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Images-1-1_small
Two Hours with Tim Shaw and Matt Hasselbeck
Jakelocker2_small
Kendall Wright & "Space Players"
Small
Inside the mind of Blaine Gabbert.
Org_1_dunkin-donuts_dd_logo_small
MCM's Avengers
X350_small
Charting Locker - Open Discussion

Recent FanPosts

Hulk_small
The Zach Brown Project
Jl_small
ESPN's Future Power Rankings Are A Joke - Titans Ranked #23
Washtitans_small
Your 2012-2013 Titans: 16-0 or 0-16?
Small
Best Or Worse Week 1: Safeties
00tenn_small
Can Michael Griffin Return To Pro Bowl Form?
Akeem_ayers_small
MCM Mock Draft Contest Results and More
Jl_small
Why Jake Locker Needs to be Named Starting QB
Dsc02970_small
Never too Early for Fantasy Football

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


General Manager

Eddiefrank_small Jimmy

Contributors

X350_small SuperHorn

Mcnair_small gramsey712

F3e0e35d492badc1e5b7a96046063cbd_small August West

91490_obit_heimerdinger_football_small Aditya T (smashville)

Nate_washington2_small rsikes

Wutangclan_small D. Reese