Jeff Fisher Supporters: Quit Making It A Jeff Fisher Versus Vince Young Thing!

Time to focus on Fisher and accept that VY is only about 5% of the story when it comes to the collapse of this team. Given the consistent mediocrity over the past 17 years, it’s time for a change. End of the day, JF w/ VY has a better winning percentage than JF w/o VY. That’s not a statement of support for VY. If you think VY is everything unholy the JF cult says he is, you can look at that fact and the only rational conclusion to be drawn is that JF must be a far worse drag on this franchise than VY has ever been.

I say let them both go.

BTW: Don’t take pronouncements of player support for Fisher too seriously. Certainly some of it is real, but negative honesty about your coach is a no-win for a player. If he comes back, we all know JF holds grudges like a spoiled 10 year old so no one will risk saying anything bad publicly and getting benched or cut (see Bo Scaife). Even if he is fired, a player’s next coach doesn’t want a guy who might stab him in the back. Saying what he feels can damage a player’s prospects elsewhere. On the other hand, supporting a failing coach will win him points as a team player with that coach or the next guy.

I could not have said it any better myself. I see Fisher as a coward. As you state so eloquently, Fisher is hiding and using his friends in the media. How does Fisher using Young help him to those with a balanced perspective.

you really are delusional

Why would you say that he would be better without VY? When VY is the reason he has the wins that he had in 4 of those 5 years VY has been here? Honestly I don’t care if VY gets cut traded or whatever, I just don’t see myself or a lot of other fans willing to continue rooting for the Titans with JF as the coach! I don’t care what happens as long as Jeff Fisher garbage tail is gone! I can live without VY at QB as long as Kerry Collins is gone as well!

In 2009, the Titans had the 11th highest payroll number (link below). Higher than the Patriots who, according to you, “have an owner who will fork over money to keep players in town”.

The only thing Adams has meddled in is the VY situation. All of the other issues with this team, the safety play, LB play, use of CJ at RB, playing Gage, playing Scaife (earlier in the year), putting Amano at center, letting Crumpler go as the blocking TE (to New England), letting Blount go, playing Harper last year, not re-signing Carr two offseasons ago or finding a suitable replacement, keeping Kearse and KVB past their prime, letting Bulluck go, the lack of creativity when games actually matter, and the overall offensive/defensive schemes, all fall on Jeff Fisher. He is the head coach. The Titans do not have the “least” talented team. They have a good team…not great, but good. Even with Collins at QB, this team should be able to win more than two games in the past 2 years (Collins is 2-12 as QB the last two years). It all falls back to the head coach.

without nameless would we not had to develope so long and then all the drama that makes it impossible to keep the locker room together? that’s 5 years of the 7 since salary cap purge.

we know what fisher and this staff can do with a strong QB and leadership from the position.

as for the comment about more with less.. look for further than Babin, Brown, KVB, Rod Hood, 7th round pick Finny. I say without this staff this team lacks serious talent

He is masterful at PR. I admire is composure. As a person, I think he is a good man. However, I don’t want him to coach the Titans anymore.

A couple of things to point out – VY’s wonderlic wasn’t a 6. Check it out. The information is wrong and subsequently retracted, but it’s just too good to ignore. VY was wrong to throw a tantrum. He should have grinned like McNabb and sat on the bench (yet again) for KC. I’m not sure how VY went over Fisher’s head to Bud to overturn the decision… VY was placed on immediately by Fisher so it would be impossible to bring him back.

Grown men apologize – and accept apologies. Grown men overcome personal dislikes and issues and work things out for the good of the mission. Regardless of how it came out that VY apologized, Fisher did not accept it, did attempt to work it out, has no desire to work with his QB and took irreversable measures to ensure he didn’t have to. Fisher is the boss, has preferred ANY QB to VY and has repeatedly managed to bench him.

Reading this, it would appear that I’m a VY fan, but I’m not. I"m a Titans fan. And my team is sucking bad, doesn’t look like it will get better soon and I blame the man responsible.

I definately think they should fire Fisher. He’s obviously had major concerns with Vince and should have had a better insurance policy than Kerry Collins. I’m all for firing Fisher, but changing coaches will not solve the problem we have at QB. If we want to win in the playoffs, we need a new QB.

Quarterbacks DVOA for 2010

DVOA is a statistic that attempts to quantify how much better (or worse) a player is from average. Without getting into too much detail, it uses every play in a game and takes into account percentages of success for specific game situations, opposing alignments, and other things.

VY ended up 5th in DVOA this year, which puts him precisely below 0 QBs drafted since 2006. He ranked 14th in 2009, which was behind precisely 0 QBs drafted since 2006. (This is liberal interpretation, since Matt Moore was 10th in 2009, and he was undrafted.)

So that you see it isn’t simply a pro-Young stat, you can see his 2007 and 2006 campaign appears to appropriately ranked as below average, which fits anecdotal evidence as well as anecdotes about his play this year did.

So if VY was bad, and couldn’t be arsed to do everything the coaching staff demanded of him, and somehow earned an incredibly quick hook, he was nevertheless good enough when he played to put up numbers that ranked him alongside Rivers, Rodgers and Manning. I think if you objectively looked at the tape, it’s pretty clear that the offense hummed when Young was allowed to run it this last year. It’s therefore difficult to make a case that whatever differences Fisher had with VY had to do with his performance with the ball in his hands. Fisher’s never had it so good (aside from McNair’s brilliant 2003 campaign, R.I.P. Steve)

The Titans were indeed a playoff mainstay from 99-03. Their record in the playoffs in that span is 5-4, which includes the 3-1 mark in the Super Bowl year. I don’t think anyone discounts the Super Bowl year as being anything less than one of the finest moments in everyone’s career.

Unfortunately, that was 10 years ago. Their playoff record since is 2-5, with Young compiling an 0-1 within that time frame.

And I don’t see anything wrong with Tenn being ranked 11th in DVOA this year. The team has classically found wonderful ways to let games slip away this year, finding amazing moments to underachieve. They rank poorly on variance, also speaking to the inconsistency this season. Finally, they are much lower on weighted DVOA, which weights against early season results in favor of late season results. I think if you ask most people about how we looked after 8 games, we were looking pretty amazing. Maybe even better than expected.

But beyond that, the anecdotes you bring up don’t really support an argument against DVOA in favor of wins. The teams you list all rank better than Tenn at this point of the season, which shouldn’t be surprising. Your historical analogue doesn’t really help the case either. The Steelers have had a resurgence with a new coach and team in the mid 90s, and have consistently been good since then, with Cowher passing off to Tomlin. Cowher went to the Super Bowl twice, with two different QBs. The two 49er eras you talk abut had one constant: the greatest receiver who ever played the game. Everything else, from coaching staff to QB to personnel across the board, changed during that era. Several coaches have taken two different teams to the Super Bowl, and many more have taken one team and lost. I’m not sure how that reflects poorly on the stat.

I think it’s pretty clear just from the results of this season that VY gave us the best chance to win games of all the QB options we had. The fact that he was having a pretty darn good season statistically may have been a fluke, but it backs the results. When Young was repeatedly being pulled and messed with for various reasons by our coaching staff, we lost games. When Young didn’t start, we lost games. If the only things that matter are wins, doesn’t that suggest that maybe something else was at play besides all the anecdotes that VY wasn’t performing up to snuff? I’m not really clear how the coaching staff is defenseable on that point.

can possibly believe that coaching makes less of a difference in football, where plays are called every down, than the other sports where its usually more or less a dynamic game. its simply far far from rational

Do you have enough as a coach? You have to consider what is going on that we don’t see. what happens in the meetings..

That is what did it for me for Fisher. Sure VY was having a terrible game against Pittsburgh, but goodness, how many QBs has that defense made look average over the years! And the Titans were only down 10 entering the 4th and he pulls him He should have cut him right after the game…how could that not shake VY’s confidence, especially after he had to watch Titans Coach refuse to put him in the year before as our season was drowning away each week on the way to 0-6. Throw in that until VY got hurt, he was the #1 rated passer for the #1 scoring offense in the league, yet Titans Coach is a victim in all this? Please…send him out to pasture Bud, sometimes you need change for the sake of change…

VY was not the starter in the Eagles or Dolphins game despite being healthy enough to be the backup. So, essentially, Fisher demoted him twice even though he was healthy enough to play. So, I can definitely understand why VY would be upset. Did VY act the right way about it? Absolutely not…but Fisher helped make that bed and that should not be forgotten.

And, white02slpss, when do you have enough as a coach? When the coach can only get his team to the playoffs in 2 of the past 7 seasons…that’s when. I don’t need to know what happens in “meetings”…all I need to know is the results on Sunday. Who gives a shit about meetings…it is wins, plain and simple.

If you love things full of incorrect statements, lol