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First Round QBs in the NFL

With the 2011 NFL Draft approaching, a lot of the Titans chatter focuses on the QB postion.  Obviously its a lot more than who to take; its also important to note where we should take a QB.  I wanted to look at how each NFL team chose to acquire their QB, and what results that produced.

Here are a few stats to look over:

Star-divide

There were 14 teams in the league with records over 0.500.  Of those 14 teams, 11 of them have a first round QB at the helm.  They break down as follows:


Sanchez, Roethlisberger, Flacco, Peyton, Rivers, Vick, Eli Manning, Cutler, Rodgers, Ryan, and Freeman.

The remaining three teams had Brady, Cassel and Brees at the helm.  Just to point out, Brees was the 32nd pick of his draft, which in today's NFL would be a first round pick.  I should also note that Vick and Cutler were not drafted by their original teams, and both have had a unique career route.

There were 16 teams that were below 0.500. 

Of them, only four were quarterbacked by a first round pick: Palmer, McNabb, Bradford, Alex Smith.

Note: This total could increase to six if you include Vince Young and Matt Stafford.  I left them out of the total because they did not start the majority of their team's games.  (Young started 8, Stafford 3.)

Two teams were at 0.500: the Jags and Raiders.  Of the two, the Raiders had a first round QB running the show.

The totals:

78.5% of the winning teams are quarterbacked by first round QBs.

75% of the losing teams were not quarterbacked by first round QBs. 

Now, as many of you know, I am completely in favour of selecting Andy Dalton or another QB (like Ricky Stanzi) in the second round.  However, after looking through the teams, most teams have chosen to build their teams around a first round QB.  In fact, unless your team is coached by Bill Belichick or you acquire Drew Brees in free agency, first round QBs seem to be the way to go.

Second round QB names have been tossed around a lot lately here, and I love the idea of taking a QB in the second round mainly because a QB bust in the second round is not as bad as taking a QB bust in the first round.  The reduced risk is something I like.  Then I stumbled upon this article by Kevin of Hogs Haven:

http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/1/27/1958737/a-formula-for-drafting-qbs-that-works-rule-of-26-27-60#storyjump

I highly recommend the article.  It delves into the 26-27-60 rule of college QBs, and applies it to this year's draft class.  The biggest statement that I took away from it though was this nugget:

Since Drew Brees was drafted in 2001, there have been 9 Qbs drafted in the 2nd round...0 are long term starters today.

So, while teams that have taken second round QBs are reducing their risk, they are also not reaping the rewards.  Its been speculated that the percentage of first round QBs who are considered "busts" is around 50%.  That seems like a fair estimation, but I have not crunched the numbers.  If you consider the above statement from Kevin though, it seems like the chances of getting a franchise QB in later rounds are even lower.  Plus, if there is a 50% bust rate on QBs, it would make sense to gamble on a more talented QB than a less talented QB. 

Let's look at the Miami Dolphins, for example.  In 2008 they held the top pick in the draft and opted for a safer pick in tackle Jake Long, as opposed to selecting QB Matt Ryan.  Jake Long is an outstanding left tackle for the team and it was certainly a good pick.  In the second round they chose their QB of the future in Chad Henne.  The Falcons, at third overall, were able to scoop up Matt Ryan.  Three years later, the Dolphins are in the market for another QB of the future (recent reports has them targeting Kevin Kolb).  The Falcons meanwhile have found a franchise QB and with that the security that their franchise should remain competitive for several years.  Now, obviously hindsight is 20/20.  Its easy to look back and say this franchise should have taken this player instead of this player and so on.  So let's consider the alternative for the Falcons if Matt Ryan was a bust.  Now three years later, they would either be hoping he'd turn it around or looking for another QB of the future.  The Dolphins and Falcons would be in roughly the same spot even if Ryan had turned out poorly (except they would be out several more millions of dollars.  With a rookie wage scale this wouldn't be much of an issue for us).  Now, perhaps if Henne had turned out to be spectacular this argument would be easily shot down, but when you're drafting a second round QB, the 'ceiling' for that player isn't as high as a first rounder's.  Even if he had developed into a good QB the Dolphins would be an average to slightly above average team with him.  Their current state has them in No Man's Land.  They're not great and they're not really Super Bowl contenders, but they are also not an NFL weakling. 

So, we have a choice. 

We can take a large risk in the first round and receive either greatness or futility.

We can take a smaller risk in the second round and receive slightly above average or below average.

In three years, we'll either have a very young and talented QB at the helm or we'll be in the same place we are today.

Step up to the table and place your bets.

(Please do not misinterpet me.  I'm not saying we should absolutely take a first round QB regardless of the seven picks ahead of us, but I am saying that if a guy we like is there, I will not oppose rolling the dice on him.)

Comment 59 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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I'm all for it

Next year. Roll the dice next year. A better crop of QBs will be coming out. If we take a QB in the 2nd or 3rd I won’t be disappointed this year. I think taking Mallett/Gabbert/Locker/Newton in the 1st is a BIG reach. I wouldnt mind any of them in the 2nd but they will probably be gone.

I am on board with Stanzi though recently. Even Ponder.

by rpeckham on Jan 28, 2011 1:22 PM CST reply actions  

I agree with some of this and that's why I put the little note at the end.

I don’t want to reach for a QB simply because we need one. If for some reason though we have our full choice of QBs at 8 (a very unlikely scenario) I am all for taking Gabbert.

In Reinfeldt We Trust

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 28, 2011 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Stanzi!!!

Ya'll don't even know he was a virgin til he was 28, and now...Roll Tide.

by rsikes on Jan 28, 2011 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Rolling the dice and losing can set a team back 4-5 years

Just look at us with VY. What is the history of success of 1st round QBs who start their rookie year in the last 10 years? That is what we need to know

Oh hai MCM

by Dagger22 on Jan 28, 2011 1:26 PM CST reply actions  

I said in the post that if the QB is a bust in 3 years you're going to have to find another QB of the future.

The alternative, taking a QB in the second round, has led to 0 longterm starters since Drew Brees was selected. So either route, you’re going to be looking for a QB of the future in 3-5 years again if he doesn’t pan out. The only difference is the reward if both a first and second rounder reach their full potential.

In Reinfeldt We Trust

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 28, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

"Since Drew Brees was selected"

why starting @ 2001? Did football have QBs in years <=2000?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Because I took the stat from Kevin's article.

Please, at least read my post if you’re going to make statements like that.

In Reinfeldt We Trust

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 28, 2011 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I did read the post

Doesn’t say anything about why 2001 is magic year that makes the statistic “better”

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

The game has evolved since 1990

More and more 1st rd picks are succeeding then before and thats why I decieded that 2000 is the time to be looking from as those players are 10 years in the league. I’d prefer to go for Carson Palmer and whatever QB we have before him sits for 2 years. I am a firm believer that that process makes the future QB much better. One of the things that I really regret in hindsight (even though god knows if it would have happened, highly doubtful) would have been keeping McNair, drafting VY and having him sit and learn behind McNair and have him mature and learn the system to come in an succeed. Sadly we will never know if that wouldve worked and right now just makes me miss Mac 9 and I wish we could find a QB as tough, smart and as awesome as he was

Oh hai MCM

by Dagger22 on Jan 28, 2011 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I am guessing he said that because Drew Brees is the only second round quarterback starting today.

I don’t think it has anything to do with the year, that just happens to be the year that Drew Brees was selected.

Official MCM Hater!

by gramsey712 on Jan 28, 2011 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Better question.
What is the history of success of 1st round QBs who start their rookie year on a run-first team and then spend every subsequent year having Kerry Collins preferred over them in the last 10 years?

[enter some witty remark here]

by fanoftheunderdogs on Jan 31, 2011 1:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Can we get a list of 1st round QBs that aren't starters

or could be considered “busts”?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 1:30 PM CST reply actions  

Off the top of my head...

I have Leinart, Russell, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey. Probably am forgetting several.

It's all Lendale's fault Fisher and VY are gone, he stomped on the TERRIBLE TOWEL!!!!!1111!!!!

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 28, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

and more

J.P. Losman
Brady Quinn
Vince Young (does he count?)
Byron Leftwich
David Carr

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

It would also depend on how you define "bust'

Is the player a bust just by on-field performance? For instance, going off stats its hard to classify Vince Young as a bust. His on-field performance wasn’t bad, and definitely not as bad as a guy like Russell. But when you take into account the off field stuff and that the still didn’t become the QB of the future for the Titans, you could say that it was a really bad pick.

In Reinfeldt We Trust

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 28, 2011 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

per the criteria of "1st rd QB starter"

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Based on where he was drafted, I would say bust.

He had his moments, especially his rookie year, but for the third overall pick and a QB at that, he did not deliver.

It's all Lendale's fault Fisher and VY are gone, he stomped on the TERRIBLE TOWEL!!!!!1111!!!!

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 28, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Fisher would not allow Young to become the QB of the future

Not when he yanks him in week 2. What does that tell your QB if you’re yanking him in the 2nd week of the season against a team thats in the SuperBowl right now.

I can see if he stunk it up against the Bills or the Bengals, but a tough game against the best defense in the league. The team thats back in the SuperBowl. Can you imagine Belichick yanking Brady after his horrible performance week 2 vs the Jets, when he played probaly the worst 2nd half of football ever??? No.

Jeff Fisher killed this team.

by The Floorer on Jan 28, 2011 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

doesn't matter

Fisher is gone.

"We take pride in running the football here". - Eugene Amano, C

Charter Member of the Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame

by Pinoy Titan on Jan 28, 2011 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Here ya go
What does that tell your QB if you’re yanking him in the 2nd week

You suck

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

no says me

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 3:19 PM CST up reply actions  

His point was that I think Vunce sucks?

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 31, 2011 7:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Glad you said that.

Seriously that argument has been shot.

In Reinfeldt We Trust

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 28, 2011 9:12 PM CST up reply actions  

So has every other argument defending Vince Young.

I’m seeing a trend here.

[enter some witty remark here]

by fanoftheunderdogs on Jan 31, 2011 1:40 AM CST up reply actions  

/yawn

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 31, 2011 7:38 AM CST up reply actions  

There are currently more 1st rd QB nonstarters than starters in the league

“1st rd QB” is NOT the answer.. “GOOD QB” is the answer, and good tends to imply high round pick. The converse is not the case.

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Also, Carson Palmer #1 pick overall 2003

fail team

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 1:39 PM CST reply actions  

Is this an insult or do you mean his team is bad?

I don’t see where you’re going with this one.

In Reinfeldt We Trust

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 28, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

You left him off list

of <.500 teams with 1st round QB starter

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

?
There were 16 teams that were below 0.500.

Of them, only four were quarterbacked by a first round pick: Palmer

etc.

In Reinfeldt We Trust

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 28, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

well hot damn!!1

got me there

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Really good stuff, man. Rec'd.

I have a few issues, though, with the premise here.

1. The sample size isn’t substantially high enough to draw any real conclusions.

2. Regression analyses aren’t always predictive. And, when combined with the sample size, I’m not sold on the idea that this should unilaterally affect draft strategy.

3. This year feels like a bit of an outlier in terms of QB value in the draft. I can’t shake the feeling that nearly all these quarterbacks would grade at a 2nd round or lower in a draft with traditional talent.

All these things sound negative, which isn’t my intent. This is a very interesting study, and I’m glad you took the time to look into it…

by SuperHorn on Jan 28, 2011 1:57 PM CST reply actions  

I honestly can't believe I received a rec from you. We usually never see eye to eye.

On your third point, Mayock has four QBs rated with a first round grade. I’m not sure, but I would assume that he keeps his grading scheme consist year in and year out, and that if you reach a certain grade, he’ll classify you as a first round talent. Obviously this is a weak class but I was pretty shocked to hear he had four QBs rated as first rounders, but perhaps that will change as we go on in the process.

In Reinfeldt We Trust

by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Jan 28, 2011 9:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Does it make since

to say “this is a really week draft class.” and then in the next sentence say “let’s take the 5th or 6th rated QB in the draft, I think they will be good.”? Wouldn’t this QB draft class really have to be good to believe the 4th, 5th or 6th rated QB could ever be a starter in the league? To me, if the QB class really is bad, then the above mentioned QB’s would really have to suck. That would seem like another statistic to look into. How many times has the 3rd, 4th or 5th rated QB in a draft class actually turned into a good pro. Cutler maybe? Who else?

by Stormcrow on Jan 28, 2011 2:12 PM CST reply actions  

I think you have to qualify it

I agree this is a “weak” class, but there is a plethora for 2nd round talent. It’s weak in that there is no QB truly deserving of a top 10 selection. But I think many of the quaterbacks fall into the late 1st round – mid 2nd round range. Gabbert, Mallet, Locker, Newton, Dalton, Stanzi, Kaepernick could all be justifiably taken in that range.

The Official Pretend Mock GM for the 2011 Music City Miracle Titans.

Go Titans!

by natidawg on Jan 28, 2011 8:18 PM CST up reply actions  

all the more reason for us to trade down,

get a mid to late first round pick and hopefully a third rounder. I just don’t think we will get what we need at number 8, but we definitely could at 18 and could use an extra pick.

Not likely to happen, but dreams are the foundation of baseball, so dream away. - JParks

by Eric Prince on Jan 29, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed, but not a third!

For the #8 pick, I want a first and a second, or a first, and next year’s first. Or something like that. Ideally it would be great if we could trade with the patriots our #8 for #17 and #33 or their #28 and #33. I’d even go for their #17 and #60

The Official Pretend Mock GM for the 2011 Music City Miracle Titans.

Go Titans!

by natidawg on Jan 29, 2011 5:11 PM CST up reply actions  

that was confusing.

I would like us to trade our #8 pick for a package from the Patriots of..

Picks 17 and 33
Picks 28 and 33
Picks 17 and 60

all of those are acceptable in my eyes

The Official Pretend Mock GM for the 2011 Music City Miracle Titans.

Go Titans!

by natidawg on Jan 29, 2011 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

i'd prefer 17 and 33 myself

just trying to be pessimistic as to what we’d get in return though. Who should be available at 8 that would make the pats want to trade that much value though?

Not likely to happen, but dreams are the foundation of baseball, so dream away. - JParks

by Eric Prince on Jan 29, 2011 5:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not 100% sure

potentially Mark Ingram or Julio Jones? Or maybe Amukamara falls and they want him, or Nate Solder. If they like some of these guys enough in the top 10, they can go get them if they want.

The Official Pretend Mock GM for the 2011 Music City Miracle Titans.

Go Titans!

by natidawg on Jan 29, 2011 6:49 PM CST up reply actions  

On second thought

when have the pats ever traded up to get a good player? They generally let them fall to them and get players they can mold into their system. Or they do exactly what we are wanting to do and trade out of the pick for extra picks, as seen by them having 3 picks in the first 33 picks this year.

Not likely to happen, but dreams are the foundation of baseball, so dream away. - JParks

by Eric Prince on Jan 29, 2011 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Unfortunately, you're very right.

I could still see a team like the Carol’s Seahawks or something wanting to move up though. Lol, we fans always talk about trading picks like it’s something that is so easily done. I just wish it were.

The Official Pretend Mock GM for the 2011 Music City Miracle Titans.

Go Titans!

by natidawg on Jan 29, 2011 11:30 PM CST up reply actions  

aaron rogers

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 28, 2011 10:54 PM CST up reply actions  

wasn't he

2nd QB chosen behind Alex Smith?

by Stormcrow on Jan 31, 2011 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

ahh you're right

had him and campbell switched: 1:Smith 25:Rodgers 26:Campbell

Unofficial MCM QB Rating Hater
NECKBEARD + ??? = WUNZ!!!!!!!!11

by rothbard on Jan 31, 2011 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Schaub.

Might be a bit of a technicality since he was a backup in Atlanta for a while there, but he was the fifth QB taken in 2004, and in the third round.

It's all Lendale's fault Fisher and VY are gone, he stomped on the TERRIBLE TOWEL!!!!!1111!!!!

Future ghostwriter of Jeff Fisher's autobiography, "Moustache Ride: A True Story of Love, Lies and Betrayal".

by ronburgundy7427 on Jan 28, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Good ones

I should have thought of those two. Both of those QB draft classes have been really good.

by Stormcrow on Jan 31, 2011 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

While you research does show a pretty clear trend

I don’t think the Titans should pick a QB in the first round unless they are 100% sure that the QB they choose is the man for the job. Taking a QB with 2nd round talent or worse in the first round isn’t going to make him a first round talent unless you are under the opinion that making a man a knight makes him a better fighter. I prefer to think that sticking a feather up your butt does not make you a chicken.

MCM's First Best Player Available FanBoy!

by asbestos_man on Jan 29, 2011 11:51 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Nice =

You can give horse water, doesn’t mean he will drink it…

Kerry Collins + Rusty Smith = -25

Starting QB not named above = 50

Just get a new body to throw the ball not named kerry or rusty or any QB whose first name has five letters & ends with a Y….

by titanwarrior1 on Jan 31, 2011 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

On the contrar

a 2nd round or 3rd round QB CAN still have “TALENT” to get us to the bowl.

by titanwarrior1 on Jan 31, 2011 3:22 PM CST up reply actions  

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