Michael Griffin > Bob Sanders (for the AFC's Ultimate Building Blocks)
Over at ESPN, Paul Kuharsky ranked the "Ultimate Building Blocks" in the AFC South, and he picked Grif over Indy stalwart Bob Sanders.
From the post:
"Go ahead, kill me on Bob Sanders.
Sanders is a great player, but as the scouting bromide goes, the best ability is availability. Based on his injury history I can't rely on him for 48 games over the next three years plus playoffs. The Colts have done OK without him in the lineup, and we will do OK building without him as a cornerstone. I had to go younger and healthier and look to other positions."
I don't see how any reasonable person can argue much with that. Other Titans making the cut include Roos, Finnegan and Crazy Legs.
4 months ago
August West
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I can't wait for the BBS post on this one
Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.
by Jimmy on Jun 12, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They've written about it extensively over there.
Search for: “Bob Sanders Beat-Down Defense”.
It’s a discussion of why Indy has to use the Cover-3 so much, and while they write it to note how great Sanders is, the take-away—and there’s no getting around it—is that Sanders is knicked a lot because Indy is generally small and underwhelming at MLB. So they have to move him into the box and hope that he can drop into coverage from there when necessary.
Of course, his virtue is that he CAN do it. The bad part is that, yes, he gets nicked. A lot.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
by DannoE on Jun 12, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB isn't the issue
Gary Brackett is very good, and you can’t just stick some big guy in the middle of a Tampa-2, it’s a coverage intensive position.
It’s that they haven’t been able to keep their big DTs on the field (thanks to injury, weight issues, drug issues, a car accident on the way to the stadium, etc)
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 13, 2009 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough.
It’ll be interesting to see if the Titans suffer from the same issue this year with an undersized D-Line in the center. And we don’t even play a MLB in the base-D! Granted, I think the Titans’ LBers, especially Outside, are better than the Colts, but it helps when you have a beast like Big Albert Haynesworth in front of you.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
by DannoE on Jun 14, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well it's not much of an assumption that the OLBs are better
when they, (and several other teams) sign Colts starters who want more than Indy will pay.
Indy doesn’t pay OLBs, they are willing to make do with guys either on rookie contracts, or that are so Tampa-2 specialized that no one else is interested in them.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 14, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this gonna turn into one of those things where everytime I say something good about...
…Tennessee, you have to tell me why the Colts are better or apologize for the difference?
The point was that the Colts’ scheme is literally killing Bob Sanders, that regardless of his talent, the fact that he constantly has to play in the box is shortening both his seasons and his career, and that this is exacerbated by Sanders’s size and style of play. For those reasons, Griffin is the guy you’d like to build your team around.
I can appreciate that Colts’ fans like to root for their guys. I also think—and said—that Sanders has a ton of talent. It doesn’t change the fact that the guy has a serious availability problem, the root of which you yourself have written about at length.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
by DannoE on Jun 15, 2009 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do want Sanders out of the box
I think he’s best when he’s blanketing a deep half and showing off his great read/react skills and 4.3 speed to fly up in run support.
When they bring him close to the line, teams make sure he gets blocked, and at 5’8" 206 he doesn’t shed a lineman or TE well. When he’s back at safety depth teams can’t block him out of plays and he has a clear path to support on any run, not just runs to the side he came up on.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 15, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW...
No Bulluck? Not even for “consideration”? What up with that?
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
by DannoE on Jun 12, 2009 12:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he says towards the bottom that he didn't value LB as much as the other positions...
putting Eugene Monroe in the consideration was the head scratcher to me. He’s never even put on pads in the NFL yet! How do we know he isn’t Robert Gallery 2.0?
Also, putting Eric Winston above David Stewart was an obvious attempt to even out the list in terms of teams players from each team.
Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager.
by August West on Jun 12, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh...
I first thought of Bulluck because I thought, especially give the discussion of Sanders and his availability, LB ought to emphasized a little more. I mean, bottom line, this list PK compiled is meant to run Dungy’s Cover-2 rather than the Titans’ D. Because the Titans’ D CLEARLY requires superior OLB to be even moderately effective.
That said, Bulluck should be ruled out for the same reason that Reggie Wayne was—age. Bulluck MIGHT have three years left in the tank, but I doubt he has four.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
by DannoE on Jun 12, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I seriously doubt that he has 3 years
at a near pro bowl level left…
Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager.
by August West on Jun 12, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm excited about Gerald McRath
I think he could effectively fill in Bulluck’s spot if we can give him two years to learn the system. And I agree with August West, Bulluck is aging fast and even though he is an amazing leader he isn’t what he used to be..
Sorry, I'm a Nube
by Sheriff McLawdog on Jun 12, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bob
brett favre can throw a football over 60 yards. bob sanders can throw brett favre even further.
by iowahawkeyes on Jun 12, 2009 1:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
true
he’d just end up on IR in the process.
Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager.
by August West on Jun 12, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fact: Bob Sanders has never gone on IR
he’s actually never missed a postseason game for Indy (of 9), he sat out the 2007 Pro Bowl, but other than that he’s 10 for 11 on being healthy in the postseason.
Besides, when Bob Sanders is placed on IR, Sanders doesn’t get IR’ed, IR gets Bob Sanders’ed
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 13, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fact: "Making up catchy" (read: recycling old, tired cliches) slogans
doesn’t change the fact that the Colts count it as a bonus when he is in instead of counting it as a loss when he isn’t. How many games a year does he average? 3? 2.5 if you don’t count pre-season? Back up to 3 if you count the 9 playoff games? Maybe Football Outsiders has the answer…
T-Rac's Posse - Just do it. T-Rac wants you to.
by T--Rac's Posse on Jun 13, 2009 2:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
9 regular season game a year
and he’s always been healthy for the playoffs.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 13, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well in all fairness
Most years he only has to be healthy for 1 game to be healthy for the “whole playoffs”.
T-Rac's Posse - Just do it. T-Rac wants you to.
by T--Rac's Posse on Jun 13, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you have to go back 10 years to get as many Titans playoff games
as the Colts have had in the last 5.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 13, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically they don't play the same position
Sanders plays SS, while Griffin is a FS.
Sanders has played 2 complete seasons (out of 5), and was the best defensive player in the league for 1 of them.
The Colts have done OK without him in the lineup
Like in 2006, when they gave up 173 yards rushing per game during the regular season (Sanders only played in 4 games), and when Sanders returned for the Playoffs, gave up only 83 yards rushing per game. But Sanders had nothing to do with that. (This is towards Kuharsky, not anyone here).
There is no doubt that him being injured has been beyond frustrating for us fans, and especially for him. But it’s hard to argue that, when healthy, he’s one of the best, if not the best, Safety in the NFL. He proved it in 2007.
I would like to know why Melvin Bullitt was on Kuharsky’s consideration list, but not Antoine Bethea. Bethea has been to the Pro Bowl already, and is only in year 4. It’s also one more Pro Bowl than Griffin, but I’ll stay away from that one, as Griffin is a good player too. I won’t convince anyone here Bethea is better, so I won’t even attempt it.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Jun 12, 2009 3:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Griffin was in the Pro Bowl this year. After his second year. But Bethea is a good player.
Official MCM Hater!
by gramsey712 on Jun 12, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not listed on the roster
That’s not to say it is wrong. 2009 Roster. His Pro-Football-Reference page doesn’t list him as being in the Pro Bowl either. I thought 2 sources were safe, because I couldn’t remember off hand.
And Bethea was in the Pro Bowl after Year 2 as well.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Jun 12, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I guess those sources are (obviously) wrong
I would have thought NFL.com would have updated their page, but I guess not.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Jun 12, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for that picture man! That one is better than what I had!
Official MCM Hater!
by gramsey712 on Jun 12, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both Bethea (2007) and Grif (2008)
went to the Pro Bowl as the first alternate. Bethea went after Troy Palamaouhaloa (sp?) backed out due to injuy, and Grif went when Ed Reed was busy breaking ankles somewhere.
Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager.
by August West on Jun 12, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still blame NFL.com and PFR
I cower at the thought of ESPN becoming the site I go to for NFL stats…
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Jun 12, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Healthy Sanders >>>> Griffen
real life Sanders, I’d still take Bob, but I understand I’m ridiculously biased……. example -———————————————————>
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 13, 2009 12:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
learn how to spell retard..
Yes a Healthy Sanders is better than Griffen ..however we dont have anyone by that name..you might be trying to use the name of Michael Griffin..but i know no one would be dumb enough to try to make that point..
Reggie Bush is a Chris Johnson wanna-be
by titansfan615 on Jun 13, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It really speaks to the strength of your position
that your argument consists of pointing out a misspelling and namecalling.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 13, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanders only appears better because of the inferiority in front of him
At this point in their careers, Michael Griffin is as good, if not better, than a 100% healthy Bob Sanders. I think 99% of the GMs in the league would pick Grif if they were building a team for the long haul.
Also, for the record, I think Chris Hope is just as good also.
by slo-verado on Jun 13, 2009 7:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bob Sanders was All-Pro his second year
I didn’t know that Pro Bowl Alternate was a higher status than All Pro.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 14, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WAS an All Pro
Michael Griffin doesn’t have to be the Titan’s defensive heart and soul. The rest of the Titans defense is make a lot of plays also so Grif isn’t “stuck” having to do everything. The same cannot be said for the Colt’s. Bob Sanders was either going to have to make all the plays or watch his team get scored on constantly. I’m not saying Bob Sanders isn’t an excellent player ( when he’s actually on the field), but I’d rather have an excellent player with a ton of potential over an aging, injury prone, EX-all pro.
by slo-verado on Jun 14, 2009 10:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he WAS defensive player of the year
too, and that was a year and a half ago
He just turned 28, he’s still in his athletic prime and if you are going to claim Griffin is better than a healthy Sanders you can’t use injury history to support that.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 15, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WAS....
as in used to be, but not anymore. I can’t make it any clearer than I have already, but I will try again. Tennessee’s defense is much better as a unit than Indy. Therefore, Griffin’s stats don’t “pop-out” at you as much as Sanders because the Titan’s have other guys making big plays as well. Bob Sanders is pretty much the “do-it-all” for Indy so his stats appear better………..ie: Basketball team A and basketball team B play a game against each other. Each of the 5 players on team A score 20pts ea. Team B has 1 guy that scores 60 points while the other four combine to score 30 points total. The player who scored 60 pts wins “player of the game”. However, ultimately, team A won the game. It’s not that team A doesn’t have a player capable of scoring 60pts in a game; it’s that everybody on team A are very good, while only 1 player on team B is very good…..Bob Sanders would be that “60pt” guy.
by slo-verado on Jun 16, 2009 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I seriously doubt people look at tackle totals to decide what DBs to vote for in the Pro Bowl and DPOY
If I say that Robert Mathis is better than USED TO BE DPOY James Harrison because he’s a younger Pro Bowl level player are you with me?
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 16, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
robert mathis is a DE, harrison is an LB
Griffin is a pro bowler who is only going to get better, maybe even better than Sanders in two years time. I think we’ve seen the best of Sanders and he’s always injured.
as such, it makes sense to go with Griffin as a cornerstone in the next three years.
Go Titans!
by Pinoy Titan on Jun 16, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3-4 OLBs ~ 4-3 DEs
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 16, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want the wavy equal sign for "approximently equal", but I don't know how to use it.
and if you read through my comments the only thing I’ve taken offense to in the Sanders v Griffin is slo-verado saying that right now Griffin is better than Sanders.
If someone thinks their franchise would be better off with Griffin at this point in time, than they would be with Sanders I disagree, but acknowledged that it could very well be my bias talking there.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 16, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can agree to disagree.
We obviously have our bias’ for our “own” player. However, I didn’t write the Article suggesting Griffin is better; I just happen to agree with it. I hate all things Pittsburgh, so you could say Bill Polian is a better player than James Harrison and I will whole-heartedly agree with you.
by slo-verado on Jun 16, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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