Tennessee Titans Morning Links: All Quiet On The Terrible WR Front Edition
by August West on Feb 6, 2009 8:49 AM CST
in Tennessee Titans Links
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Best news you'll hear all day:
Meanwhile, the agent for receiver Justin McCareins said it’s been quiet so far regarding his conversations with the team.
/pumps fist
Paul Kuhrasky makes the prima facie argument for keeping Albert Haynesworth. I agree with his methods and reasons, and that's truest when it comes to addressing this common meme:
He's going to dog it once he gets the big dollars.
Maybe I am a sucker, but I feel like I've gotten to know him during his career in Nashville and I'm convinced he won't let himself become fat and happy. Here's why.
When he stomped Dallas center Andre Gurode's face back on Oct. 1, 2006, he suffered the consequences with a six-week, five-game suspension. He was a pariah. That was a lot to come back from, and much of his motivation was to re-establish his name. He knew he'd soiled it, and he was embarrassed when he thought about how his kids would suffer for it.
Having worked so hard to erase that stain, I simply don't believe that he'll respond to a big payday by taking his foot off his career gas pedal. If he did, he'd get smeared again. Having been in that unenviable position, I believe he will be very conscious of not getting there again.
In knucklehead news, Jevon Kearse pled his DUI charge down to reckless driving.
Paul Kuharsky is coming strong today, bringing us some thoughts from Rob Rang at NFLDraftScout.com on what the Titans can do at the 30 spot.
Cortland Finnegan says the Pro Bowl is a dream trip, and he was kidding everyone earlier in the year about taking a boat because of his fear of flying.
Look for the Titans to join in on this event next year: the original AFL franchises will conduct "Legacy Weekends" where teams will wear uniforms form the AFL days and special logos to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the AFL's creation.
Mel Kiper breaks down draft needs across the AFC South. The more I see of that Michael Johnson kid the more I like that pick for us unless someone plummets on draft day.
I'm not one to quote Chris Issac.. ever, but the the Texans may have done a bad, bad thing.
Every time you email me a link the football gods smile upon you, so if you have a link you'd like to submit for tomorrow's Morning Links email me at mcmaugustwest@gmail.com! (Be sure to include your commenting handle so I can give you semi-anonymous credit.)
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Regarding WRs
I think the Titans would be wise to let all of their FA receivers seeks their fortunes elsewhere; they should spend this offseason seeking upgrades at WR instead of the usual status quo: undertalented veterans with perhaps some project rookies thrown into the mix again. Taking the usual approach with the usual suspects won’t yield any more fruit this year than last.
Haynesworth would be nice to keep, but I think this team would benefit more by upgrading at QB, either short-term or long-term. If the staff is satisfied with last year’s performance at QB, then winning the Super Bowl is not the ultimate goal – at least not realistically. The Baltimore Ravens’ Championship formula comes once in a generation; it is not the winning template.
Given the choice, i would prefer to see the Titans lure Kurt Warner away from the Cardinals for a 1-2 year deal, with Vince waiting in the wings. Or perhaps Cassel would be a nice fit, as he seems to have a much higher ceiling of potential.
As the team should have learned by now, the window of opportunity stays open for only a short time. They should seize the moment, and not be pleased with the stauts quo. That includes the status quo at QB and WR, not just the status quo of the idea of not being pleased with not winning the Super Bowl.
This team + a Kurt Warner at QB becomes a championship team. This team with Collins at QB becomes a team that will never win three consecutive playoff games, ever, period.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Feb 6, 2009 10:33 AM CST reply actions
Kerry Collins did not lose that game to the Ravens.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
No, but he sure didn't win it...
but at this point in their careers I’m not to sold on Kerry or Kurt from year to year. That being said, Kerry has earned a good offer and the inside track at the starting spot, IMO.
Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.
My point was that if the dirty-stankin-mouthbreathing-douchecanoe Ravens had not intentionally hurt CJ, or if Crumpler had tucked the ball, we win that game
And we saw what we had done to the Squeelers.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
I am not sure what more we expect a 36 year old game managing quarterback to do that he did not.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
clearly after completing the pass to alge
he should have sprinted down field and helped him old onto the ball
The Official Enforcer of MCM
And Warner is not gonna be any different than Collins in our system.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
Exactamundo.
Now, if Warner brings Fitzgerald with him, I’m on board.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
Wrong.
Compare the career stats of the two. For his career, Kurt Warner is significantly better in nearly every category.
Comp %: 65.4; 55.7
TD %: 5.1; 3.3
INT: 3.2; 3.2
Y/A: 7.1; 5.5
Rating: 93.8; 73.8
Had the Cardinals won the Superbowl, Warner would have deserved to be in the discussion for the Hall of Fame. Kerry Collins will never be in that discussion.
The bottom line is Kerry Collins is incredibly average. Middle of the road, but serviceable. He fits well into Fisher’s system, and looks great when compared to Vince ‘07, because he protects the ball. But, he isn’t close to the same level as Kurt Warner or any elite quarterback in this league…
kurt warner
has also commanded two of the most high flying, pass happy offenses in the history of the NFL. both in STL and AZ the teams committed to having two of the best receivers in the league on the field at the same time. that ain’t happening here. you can’t take someone out of a ferrari put him in a muddin’ truck, and still expect him to drive 250mph.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
Hal
Look at the stats:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CollKe00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WarnKu00.htm
Kerry was throwing the ball just as much when he was in New York.
throwing to toomer and shockey
so thats the #3 and #17 ALL TIME receivers warner had in STL, and unarguably the best corps of receivers in the league right now in AZ, with fitzgerald being the undisputed #1 WR in the league and Boldin as a guy that would be the #1 WR at 28 of the other 31 teams easily and maybe even all of them (NE, HOU, and CAR were the three teams that i thought might stick with their guy at #1over boldin). anyway you slice it, warner has commanded 2 of the 5 best receivers in football at the same time, at TWO different teams. this year he had 3 of the top 15!!
collins, meanwhile, has had amani toomer, and that’s it. both carolina and the titans were/are starved for WR talent. comparing their career number is just silly.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
I'm not necessarily comparing them straight up.
But, when there is that large of a gap between the two for the entire career in nearly every category, I think it’s safe to call Warner the better of the two. Let’s also throw Matt Leinarts stats in there…it shows how important Kurt is to that team even with two #1s. Link
And, if we’re throwing numbers out the window, I’ll just go by what my eyes tell me. Kurt throws a great deep ball. Kerry doesn’t. Blame the receivers, I guess, but nearly every deep ball Kerry threw last season was 5 yards long. Why even throw it?
i just don't think warner would have made much of a difference
with what we have going on around here on offense. qb just isn’t that important, it needs to be solid, and kerry was. if alge doesn’t fumble we would all have been talking about how collins carried us to the win with out CJ in the 2nd half. kerry collins is everything the titans need from a qb unless they get serious about the passing game, which is an afterthought for us at this point. is warner the better qb? sure. it just wouldn’t have changed any realities.
besides, 5 yards too long for our guys would be just about perfect for fitzgerald or isaac bruce.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
This is a joke right?
besides, 5 yards too long for our guys would be just about perfect for fitzgerald or isaac bruce.
Re:
i just don’t think warner would have made much of a difference
That’s because your fucking eyes don’t work. Kurt Warner defines difference maker on offense. The Rams in 1998 were the 27th ranked offense. Kurt Warner shows up and they are 1st in yards and scoring for three straight years. Surprise surprise, Kurt Warner gets injured in 2003, Marc Bulger takes the helm, and the team is suddenly just another good but not great 13th ranked offense, despite having the same running back, same receivers, and same head coach. The Greatest Show on Turf, wich was perhaps one of the best offenses in league history, disappeared the day Kurt Warner gets injured. St. Louis has yet to have an even top 5 ranked offense since then.
Look at Arizona? Fitzgerald and Boldin have been in the league for 5 years. Do they crack the top 10 offenses in the league? No, except when Kurt Warner is throwing them the ball.
Want to compare? Why not just look at who had the better season with the same team? Kerry Collins QBed the Giants in 2003, Kurt Warner did in 2004. What do you know, Warner destroys Collins in every relevant passing statistic.
There is pretty obviously something wrong with your head if you think Kerry Collins is even in the same conversation with Kurt Warner.
alright buddy
nowhere do i say they are of the same ability level, try reading before ranting. i simply think that the way the titans offense works, with crap receivers, we don’t need to focus on upgrading qb.
i have no idea how much you watched the titans, other than to say less than i watched them, and i can tell you, we lost to the jets because the receivers couldn’t catch a cold and the defense had a bad day. we lost to houston because of collins. we lost to indy by default. we lost to baltimore because of cj’s injury, 2 crushing red zone fumbles, and inummerable stupid penalties.
to add it up for you, we lost 1 game out of 17 this season because of kerry. so when i say that he is everything that the titans need at qb, this is what i mean. we ask him to do very little, and way more often than not, he gets it done.
now to clean up your mess:
in 1998, isaac bruce played in 5 games and neither faulk nor holt were even on the team. (MIGHT have had something to do with that 27th rating, ya think?) then after a few glory years, in 2002, warner was 0-6 as a starter, couldn’t stay healthy and the rams as franchise began their ride to the bottom.
nevermind the fact that the big improvements you keep touting are over really bad qbs like leinart and tony banks. woo hoo!
but this is all beside the point because i never said warner wasn’t good, that was all you. warner is clearly as accurate as they come, and has had a fine career. but the gaudy numbers yardage and TD-wise are as much about the tools he’s working with as anything else. all i said is he wouldn’t make a big difference in tennessee with the weapons we currently have, and that kerry collins is good enough for what we try to do. factor in how much more warner will cost over collins and i say it’s a bad idea.
i will be nice to you for only one more jackass comment where you clearly fail to comprehend what i am saying and decide instead to attack me for an opinion i don’t have and have never expressed.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
Re:
i simply think that the way the titans offense works, with crap receivers, we don’t need to focus on upgrading qb.
Sure, that’s true, if your goal is to be a bad offense. If your goal is to be a good offense, the one thing we know about Kerry Collins is that you can’t have one where he is the quarterback. Without knowing anything about your team, I am 100% positive that Kerry Collins will not complete 60% of his passes and I also know that there are people in this league who can. I don’t really care about Titans offense or your offensive needs, but it happens to be the case that Kurt Warner, like about 18 of the league’s starting QBs, are better than Kerry Collins. That’s not a controversial statement. Kerry Collins just isn’t very good.
to add it up for you, we lost 1 game out of 17 this season because of kerry. so when i say that he is everything that the titans need at qb, this is what i mean. we ask him to do very little, and way more often than not, he gets it done.
Because your defense is so good, you need Kerry Collins to do very little… and he does. If you had a competent qb, you guys would never lose a game. Maybe instead of thinkinga bout a loss because “the defense had a bad day” you should wonder why the team insists on having a quarterback who can only win if and only if the defense plays well?
The Rams were a horrible offense before Kurt Warner showed up and the best in the league for the time he was there… and then they disappeared again. What you are trying to suggest is that this can be blamed on the running backs, the receivers, but not the quarterback, despite the fact that all those people participated on mediocre Rams offense, and the quarterback never did. When he started, they were the best in the league. When he didn’t, they weren’t top 5.
nevermind the fact that the big improvements you keep touting are over really bad qbs like leinart and tony banks. woo hoo!
And Joe Montana was an improvement over Steve DeBerg and Manning was an improvement over Jim Harbaugh. What’s your point?
My position has never been Kurt Warner is good because he was better than Tony Banks or Matt Leinert, but rather than he’s better than just about anyone of his contemporaries. Warner led the league in passing touchdowns twice. His career passer rating is 4th all time. He is the NFL’s all team leader in passing yards a game. He is 5th all time yards per attempt, AND led the league three seasons in a row, higher than Peyton Manning, higher than Steve Young, higher than a long list of people who likewise had great receivers. He is the 2nd all time leader in pass completion , led the league 3 times in a row and was 2nd this year. He has had either the best TD or best Int% in the league three times. He has not excelled over merely Tony Banks, he’s excelled over every single one of his contemporaries many of whom were likewise throwing to very talented receivers. The list of quarterbacks who have taken two teams to the Super Bowl is 2. The list of QBs who have taken the Arizona Cardinals in their 88 year history to the Super Bowl is: One. He is a phenomenal quarterback.
It has not been suggested that Warner didn’t benefit from having great players around him. But you want others to believe that the Titans are somehow just as good with Kerry Collins as they are with Kurt Warner because the latter has had good receivers. The two aren’t comparable at all. If they were, we could have a discussion about who had the better receivers or offenses or whatever. But they aren’t close. We’re talking about one VERY good qb and one PRETTY BAD qb.
The whole premise of your argument is wrong.
So you don’t think that having better receivers makes you a better quarterback?
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
I believe having better receivers makes you a “better” quarterback, in so far as your overall performance is enhanced by having good wide receivers. I have made that point repeatedly and clearly. For example, here is what I said in the post directly above your response:
It has not been suggested that Warner didn’t benefit from having great players around him.
I apologize for not being clearer: Kurt Warner has benefitted from playing with great people around him. The point has been made, by me, too subtely obviously because you haven’t gotten it, here:
Give me a break. If Kerry Collins and Kurt Warner had COMPARABLE resumes, we might say that, all things equal, Collins should get the nod because of the personnel around him.
Etc. I have not suggested anywhere that “having better receivers” doesn’t make one “a better quarterback.”
Having settled that, what else about my “whole premise” do you find wrong? You’ve just imagined my “whole premise”.
What?
Yes, Kurt Warner has COMMANDED two of the best offenses in the league, one of them perhaps the best offense in league history. Kerry Collins has not. And it isn’t because he wasn’t in a place that passed religiously — Collins had more attempts in New York and Oakland than Kurt Warner had in any season in St. Louis. The reason Kerry didn’t COMMAND an offense and Kurt Warner did is because the former is the definition of a mediocre quarterback and the latter is one of the most accurate passers in the history of the league.
and who was catching the ball?
show me where collins has EVER been on a team with talent like faulk, bruce, holt, and az-hakim. or try fitzgerald, bolidn and breaston? never happened, not close.
football is a team game. no position’s stat line is more dependent on the rest of the team than the qb’s. drops, bad routes, blocking, tipped passes, missed tackles and yards after catch all skew a qb’s stats, for better or for worse.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
Yea so I guess we can throw out Joe Montana’s stats because he threw to Jerry Rice?
Give me a break. If Kerry Collins and Kurt Warner had COMPARABLE resumes, we might say that, all things equal, Collins should get the nod because of the personnel around him. But they aren’t even CLOSE.
Has Peyton Manning had a great offense around him? Yea, so what’s his excuse for having a lower completion % than Kurt Warner? In 14 years in the league the only statistical categories that Kerry Collins has led the league in are fumbles — definitely the receiver’s fault hah — and interceptions thrown; only Brett Favre has thrown more among active players.
Kerry Collins, simply put, has had a TOTALLY forgettable career. His reign of error spread like a diseased shitstorm across some, now, 8 different cities in the country. He is the former 1st round pick that WASN’T, not in 1995, not happening in 2009, hasn’t happened at any point in between. If all of this can be dismissed simply because he wasn’t throwing to Fitzgerald and Anquad Boldin, then I guess he’s as good as Peyton Manning or Joe Montana, too.
jason campbell sucks
and the redskins have been mediocre at very best since clinton was elected
The Official Enforcer of MCM
Why did you come over here?
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
What was the argument?
That the Titans would have been better with Kurt Warner THIS SEASON.
And we don’t think they would have been. It doesn’t matter if it’s Joe Montana, Peyton Manning or Jason Campbell throwing the ball if Justin McCareins drops everything thrown at him.
The Titans would NOT have been better this season with Kurt Warner at quarterback.
But I forgot how smart you are, you use words like “fuck.”
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
his reading comprehension skills
don’t impress. he has spent the whole time arguing with stuff no one ever said—essentially arguing with himself. we are just trying to decide if he is a good fit for one specific team, the titans. no one trashed warner, no one said collins was better than or even equal to warner.
this kid is just so full of hot air i guess he had to blow some off and picked an ex-giant cuz it was easy and he is a bitter skins fan.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
My favorite part
Is when he admits he knows nothing about our team, and he is still over here arguing about something out of the blue.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
So you admit… Kurt Warner is better than Kerry Collins? Now you argue why your team is improved by having the worse of two quarterbacks.
What aspect of Kerry Collins game makes him an improvement over Kurt Warner? Does he manage games better? (No.) Does he protect the football better? (No.) Does he pass more accurately? (No.)
What is it about Kerry Collins that makes you think he’s “a good fit for” any team? If you agree that Warner is the better quarterback, why are you arguing with me about how Collins is better for the Titans?
clear your reading/football comprehension is just that piss poor
i have explained like 10 freaking times for you what my position is. you are a lost cause.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
Like him or not
He’s right…the Titans would have been more dangerous with Kurt as QB.
In particular:
Warner led the league in passing touchdowns twice. His career passer rating is 4th all time. He is the NFL’s all team leader in passing yards a game. He is 5th all time yards per attempt, AND led the league three seasons in a row, higher than Peyton Manning, higher than Steve Young, higher than a long list of people who likewise had great receivers. He is the 2nd all time leader in pass completion , led the league 3 times in a row and was 2nd this year. He has had either the best TD or best Int% in the league three times.
I can appreciate defending Kerry because he’s a Titans. But, he’s clearly a better QB than Kerry. An upgrade at any position makes the team better, even if it’s marginal…
That the Titans would have been better with Kurt Warner THIS SEASON.
Apparently on this website it is enormously controversial to suggest that: Your team would have been better off with a quarterback more talented than Kerry Collins. The pushback from you and others is seriously: Kerry Collins is only and exactly and precisely the perfect quarterback for the Tennessee Titans system, which defies all reason. Below you say:
It doesn’t matter if it’s Joe Montana, Peyton Manning…
So long as Justin McCareins “drops everything thrown at him.” Actually, no, he caught 42% of the passes thrown his way and, per his splits at CNNSI, “dropped” exactly one of them. That isn’t me defending McCareins, simply reciting stats. You think he drops a lot, CNNSI thinks he dropped one and was either “Pass Overthrown” or “Pass Underthrown” or “Pass Thrown Wide” 15 times. He was thrown at by Kerry Collins ~70 times and at least one reputable source thinks 15 of those 70 attempts were incomplete because of QB error. Would it have made a difference if Joe Montana was throwing the ball? Yea, it would have.
Why are we even arguing about this? The Kerry Collins defender in this thread already admitted that Collins was personally responsible for 33% of the team’s losses this season. If you had a competent qb, you guys would be celebrating your super bowl victory right now.
so
kerry collins lost that playoff game by getting our RB injured, fumbling for lendale and alge, and making our team give up a gazillion penalty yards? right.
have you ever watched a football game? because you entire argument stinks of someone who just watches sportscenter. either that or your ability to critically analyze football games is less than zero.
he was probably the sole reason on offense we beat baltimore the first time around, and his passing broke the first indy game open, and he was stellar in our beatdown of pittsburgh. hmmm looks to me like he’s good enough to lead us to victory over the class of the afc.
your sauce is getting pretty weak douchebag, i could refute your garbage in my sleep.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
You are like a child.
My sauce? Jesus.
Anyways, yea sure Kerry Collins had nothing to do with the Baltimore Ravens loss. It was probably Alge and Lendale’s fault he threw that interception? Definitely Collins didn’t have any part in failing to catch the snap on 4th and 8. You talk about the loss to the Ravens as though it were inevitable… the score was 13-10. You are trying to tell me that there isn’t a quarterback in the league that wins that game? (By the way, just reviewing the only touchdown drive for the Titans, and it would’ve been killed by a Kerry Collins overthrow but for a defensive penalty on the other side of the field.) A game manager is great except for when you’re down by 3 with a minute to go. That’s where you need a competent quarterback, not a guy who kills the game with three incompletions.
Revisionist history on the 1st Baltimore game, too. It’s easy to say he had that game winning drive, but if he doesn’t throw 2 interceptions you guys aren’t winning in the last minute, you’re winning in the 3rd quarter. You cite his 2nd lowest QB rating of the entire season as some amazing evidence of how great he is?
While he played a great game against Pittsburgh he was hardly “stellar” against Indy. But there’s nothing wrong with granting him his good performances so long as it is all kept in perspective; there are at least two of your losses that another quarterback would’ve won, including your playoff loss to the Ravens. When you look at a team with as good a defense and a running game as the Titans, what is striking isn’t that you won 13 games but that you lost, at all.
kerry's int was basically a punt
and the bad snap was the fault of a 2nd career starter at center who snapped the ball while kerry wasn’t looking. do you enjoy exposing your lack of football comprehension?
again, if alge doesn’t fumble, kerry collins leads the game winning drive.
wins are wins and winning ugly is what the titans are all about. i shouldn’t have to tell you this, but then again you are the one storming in here, ranting and raving dropping f-bombs while not having a clue about anything concerning the titans or football in general beyond what you might hear on a pregame show or sportscenter.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
I take it all back, Kerry Collins has never done anything wrong, ever, even when he is not catching snaps or throwing interceptions. Yaok.
You wouldn’t have to win ugly if you had a good quarterback. If you had to choose between winning and winning ugly, no one would select the latter.
Kerry Collins had a horrible game against the Ravens but it isn’t his fault you guys lost. No one could’ve won that game, right? It was all Crumpler’s fault.
I'm just saying he hasn't done anything when he doesn't have All-World WRs
and we don’t even have All-Cumberland Plateau receivers.
Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.
Chicken-egg
isn’t it strange how Jerry Rice looked a lot worse when he didn’t have a hall of fame quarterback throwing to him? It’s like virtually everytime a receiver does extremely well, there’s a great quarterback there. So odd.
Kerry Collins has always been as bad as he was this year. He hasn’t always had bad receivers. The same St. Louis rams receivers and running back and head coach went from the best offense to the league to a maybe top 10 in the league the instant kurt warner steps off the field.
Consider the receivers? Don’t you think it’s odd that Larry Fitzgerald has been a pro bowler only and exactly in seasons where Kurt Warner was throwing him the ball? Three of Isaac Bruce’s four pro bowl’s involved Kurt Warner? Torry Holt’s yards per reception have decreased nearly every year since 2000, with Kurt Warner at the helm? Four of Marshall Faulk’s seven pro bowls were in Warner’s offense, with all his 1st team years there?
There is a relatioship between great receivers and great quarterbacks. Typically where you find one, you find the other. The best quarterbacks are the ones that deliver passes to their receivers, and Kurt Warner has done that better than just about any quarterback in the leauge’s history.
So you contend that the Titans would have been better this season with Warner under center?
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
Yes.
That’s meant to answer GRamsey.
And, I get the whole receiver, pass happy, stuff, but a 10% disparity in completion percentage is huge. The in TD% is huge as well. World class receivers are important, but you need a good trigger man.
Even in Kerry’s best year (2002), with tools around him, in a pass happy offense, he had a lower TD%, Y/A, and rating than Kurt has for his career.
This entire discussion is looney tunes.
Is there any person in the entire history of the league who has ever compared Kerry Collins to Kurt Warner? Where on this planet would that not ellicit an immediate laugh?
You need to get a life.
I’m sure the sun is shining somewhere. Please go there now and don’t come back.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
pretty ballsy to start throw shots at other people's work
when you clearly have only a remedial understanding about the subject you cover in a blog. 10 bucks say dannoe can write circles around you critically.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
what point is that?
that you are trying to somehow imply that Dannoe’s interests are somehow less worthwhile than anyone else’s? that somehow enjoy science fiction denotes not having a life? why don’t you try BEING GOOD AT SOMETHING before you wipe your snobbery all over everyone else? btw, how much is the rent on you mother’s basement? you have to be at least a good 35 years old to have had any real interest the last time the redskins were worth a damn.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
Yea, I am saying that Battlestar Galactica enthusiasts aren’t in any better position to question the live’s of others who happen to enjoy football. The point isn’t that there’s something inherently wrong with liking Battlestar Galactica, it’s that you shouldn’t be questioning how much of a life strangers on the internet… at all.
Typical:
that you are trying to somehow imply that Dannoe’s interests are somehow less worthwhile than anyone else’s?
you have to be at least a good 35 years old to have had any real interest the last time the redskins were worth a damn.
Are you implying that my interest in the Redskins is somehow less worthwhile than anyone else’s interest in the Titans?
strangers who show up and act like shit get treated like shit
deal with it.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
I've no idea what your point there is.
Until recently, I was a semi-professional comic reviewer. I got paid to read comics. I was well-respected in the industry. You can make out of that whatever you want.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Man Warner is as unpredictable as cheap sushi on a Sunday
if he was as lockdown great every year as you make him sound he wouldn’t have been cut by St. Louis, NY and damn near the Cards. He’s has several great years and more than a few horrible ones.
Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.
that's not good either
but again, this was never a “who is the better qb discussion”. it was always a “should the titans do this” discussion.
last season kerry had 8 turnovers to kurt’s 21, fwiw
The Official Enforcer of MCM
If it is a “should the titans do this” discussion it is only because you’ve conceded Warner is the better QB. Here is the original offending statement:
This team + a Kurt Warner at QB becomes a championship team. This team with Collins at QB becomes a team that will never win three consecutive playoff games, ever, period.
Here is your friend gramsey’s response:
And Warner is not gonna be any different than Collins in our system.
That is the discussion here. You think it’s about what the Titans should do, but you’re alone. The discussion has been, from the beginning, whether or not the Titans in 2008 would’ve been better off with Kurt Warner than they would’ve been with Kerry Collins. And the answer to that discussion is, uncontroversially: Of couse they would’ve been. You have already conceded that Warner is the superior qb.
fwiw Kerry Collins is NOT great at protecting the football. His career is not the least bit impressive in so far as minimizing turnovers is concerned.
does big blue shoe run the skins blog under a different name?
to bring you up to speed on nfl common sense, there are many ways of evaluating a player within a certain system. the titans have a great defense, and a powerful running attack. we have awful receivers who, for the most part, the less used the better. we need a qb who minimizes mistakes and lets the rest of the team win the game. the + 13 turnover margin for warner would have cost us multiple games this year, no doubt. i could give a shit what collins did anywhere else 5, 10 years ago. in our system, he can make the simple throws we need and minimize mistakes.
warner puts up a lot of stats. he needs to, because he has been a turnover machine his entire career.
in 26 games with the titans, collins has 19 fumbles+ints.
in warners’ 2 mvp seasons, his absolute PEAK, he had 54 fumbles+int’s in 32 games
let me make this as simple as i can for you:
collins w/ titans: .7 “turnover events” per game
warner in his prime: 1.6875 “turnover events” per game
the titans do not need someone who is used to flinging the ball all over the field to primo talent, or who has never, ever shown the ability to take care of the ball, (at least one stop in collins’s career has shown he can do that). factor in that collins is familiar with our system and will cost less than warner and i’m pretty much out of ways to try and educate you on this one.
now why don’t you just go back to playing madden all day, where it is nice and simple and players’ skill levels are neatly summed up with a number between 40&100. the real nfl is simply to complex for chumps like you.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
I've already addressed some of this above.
Regarding Collins/Jason Campbell. I’ll add to it though.
the + 13 turnover margin for warner would have cost us multiple games this year, no doubt. i could give a shit what collins did anywhere else 5, 10 years ago. in our system, he can make the simple throws we need and minimize mistakes.
Certainly debatable. The issue isn’t whether Warner merely had more turnovers, but whether he was likewise bad enough in other aspects of his game not to overcome the turnovers. And I’m suggesting he was, you disagree, but you don’t have any explanation for why you disagree. I am saying: A team is much, much better off with a quarterback who completes something like 10% more of his passes and something like 1.5 more yards per passing attempt. Interceptions and fumbles aren’t the only way to hand the ball to the other team, and those completed passes are one of the things that turn 3rd down incompletions into 1st downs.
I’m also dubious on just how dramatic the turnover difference is. The fumble difference in particular is lowered considerably when correcting for sack %. Arizona had a horrible offensive line and Tennessee had a very good offensive line. To the degree that you’re willing to excuse Collins’ horrid stats because it was all the receivers’ fault, I’m happy suggesting that Warner fumbles a lot less behind that Titans offensive line. I’m also one of those crazy people who thinks QB pressure correlates pretty well with generating interceptions so…
Regarding career stats, you really should give a shit what Collins has done over the course of his career as that provides a much more telling set of data than last year’s statistics. Every good moment in Collins’ career is followed up the next year by shit. If Collins doesn’t blow it next year, that would be unprecedented.
But talking solely about 2008, yea, I think Warner had a better season and I think the Titans would’ve won more games with him. And I think that acknowledging he had more turnovers last year.
You can probably count on one hand the people on this planet who think Kerry Collins in 2008 was a better fit for the ‘08 Titans than Kurt Warner in his prime would have been. Warner’s 1999 and 2001 seasons will go down in NFL history as to of the best by any quarterback, ever. Counting up turnovers will not and should not overcome his historic numbers.
This guy ain't worth it hal
He will go away if we just ignore him.
We can’t change his mind, and he ain’t gonna change ours. That’s why he gets personal.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
Let's try and keep this civil fellas
Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.
this clown just came out of nowhere man
who even knew they still had a team in DC?
The Official Enforcer of MCM
What about this do you think is funny?
I’ve got a joke, so a guy walks into a bar and who knew they still had a team in DC; maybe he’s actually Dan Snyder. Get it? What a fucking riot.
There is no setup and there is no punchline. What are you fake e-laughing at?
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