Don't Re-sign Kerry Collins

by SuperHorn on Feb 10, 2009 2:05 PM CST Comment 69 comments

Kerry Collins is reportedly seeking more money than Kurt Warner and might "piggyback" Warner before signing in free agency.
Collins' TD to INT ratio last year was 12:7 to Warner's 30:14 and Collins' YPA and completion rates were far worse. He's kidding himself if he thinks he's as valuable. The Titans should look elsewhere if Collins sticks to his guns.

This information comes by way of Yahoo. If true, the Titans shouldn't even blink an eye about letting Kerry walk.

He is a temporary "solution" and a bad one at that. Everyone wants to upgrade at receiver, but no one will point the finger at Collins. We need a playmaker at quarterback, not a game manager.

There are two better options:

1. Start VY

The coaches keep saying Vince is the guy of the future. Start him then. He's had a year to get his head on straight and watch. If he even only gets back to 2006 form, I'd contend that we're better off because it starts a process for the future.

However, if Vince is truly done in Tennessee, the front office needs to face that situation head on. Trade him and get whatever you can.

This leads to an alternative scenario.

2. Bring in Matt Cassel

Whether through trade or free agency (depending on the franchise tag situation), find a way to get this guy. We saw what he was able to do in New England. He's young and we can build the organization around him.

None of this is necessarily meant to take a shot at Kerry, but this team shouldn't accept mediocrity at quarterback. It could be tolerated if he were young and it was a process to help build the teams future, but that's not the case. He's 36, with a QB rating of 80.2, a completion percentage of 58.3%, and zero upside.

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It terrifies me to come into the season

counting on VY, but if Collins is going to do something like that, let him walk. He should be greatful for the situation he has in Tennessee because he is, at best, a game manager. He is not going to be successful if a team tries to build an offense just around him.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.

by Jimmy on Feb 10, 2009 2:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, if that is true, he has completely lost his mind.

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Feb 10, 2009 2:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ehh... it's his agent's job to get the most money for his client.

I wouldn’t read anything into it.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

by DannoE on Feb 10, 2009 2:43 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

Pop quiz

Leftwich or Collins if they were the same money?

Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.

by August West on Feb 10, 2009 3:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Kurt Warner

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Feb 10, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

TN is too cold and we don't have a dome

so Kurt doesn’t have the balls to play here

Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.

by August West on Feb 10, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

The horrible thing about this question is that it actually warrants a response. Even worse, Leftwich is better on paper. Without seeing a bunch of him playing, it’s hard to evaluate. That said, he has a higher rating, completion percentage, TD, and INT.

That’s what makes this situation so difficult…Kerry is winning. But, on paper he sucks, so people have this warped idea that he was part of that winning equation. In reality, Leftwich, a guy who hasn’t been put in such an ideal situation, may be better for the “Collins role” (ie not turning the ball over).

by SuperHorn on Feb 10, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Superhorn...

I’m beginning to think you are to Kerry Collins what Joy Kat is to Vince Young.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Feb 10, 2009 5:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha!

I was actually thinking that myself. And, it’s not that I dislike the guy. He just isn’t very good. If we can resign Albert, we have one more year to make a serious run at the Superbowl with this team in tact. Kerry is weighing us down. These opportunities come around once every couple of decades for most teams. The Titans need to demand excellence and Kerry doesn’t have it.

The problem is that I’m not sure there is a much better answer. I’d like to think it’s Vince, but I don’t know if he has things together yet.

I want Kerry on this team as an insurance plan. We need to see what we have with Vince and the only way to do that is to have an open competition in training camp. Otherwise, we bring back Kerry for 1-2 years, Vince leaves next year because they won’t honor his contract and then we’re really screwed in the long run. Now, I’m not suggesting that Vince should just outright start, but he should be given an opportunity to compete.

Bring Kerry back, but don’t guarantee him the position. If he doesn’t like that role, bring in (gasp) Byron Leftwich.

by SuperHorn on Feb 10, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree... sorta

I agree that KC has done a good job, but in most cases the team wins because of our defense and our run game.

I don’t get the whole “1 year” thing tho. We have a very young team with good depth at most positions. That’s why I think it’s most important that we move past Kerry Collins.

by theologic on Feb 10, 2009 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Then

we agree… I wanna see open competition also… Just don’t think Vince will win the job. I hope he does, I hope he’s the franchise and the future we all thought he was.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Feb 10, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fun with time warps:

That’s what makes this situation so difficult…Kerry is winning. But, on paper he sucks, so people have this warped idea that he was part of that winning equation.

Here’s that statement as most people made it last off-season:

That’s what makes this situation so difficult…Vince is winning. But, on paper he sucks, so people have this warped idea that he was part of that winning equation.

Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.

by August West on Feb 11, 2009 8:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

The difference about Vince is that he brings a different dynamic to the game. The threat of his legs opens up things for the run game that don’t show up on VYs stat sheet. Also, as I said before, we all knew Vince was a project which made things somewhat tolerable. The same can’t be said for a veteran considering retirement. With no upside, he needs to be productive.

by SuperHorn on Feb 11, 2009 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The difference to me

is that Kerry brings a different dynamic that Vince doesn’t have. The arm to throw the ball downfield

by Big Bad Bulluck on Feb 12, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My vote: start VY!! :D

Seriously, KC isn’t worth the money he wants. Game manager yes, franchise-money QB – NO.

It astounds me that KC would think he’s worth Kurt Warner money. He must be smoking some wacky tobacky.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 10, 2009 3:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

what about sims?

He might be a better answer as VY competition, having a year to learn the system and some time to get his arm back in shape. Young, Sims, and perhaps a draft pick?

by jmac1383 on Feb 10, 2009 3:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

This wouldn't be a problem if we had drafted Cutler...

by Michaeltastic on Feb 10, 2009 3:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

We should have drafted CUTLER!!!!!1111!!!!!!1111

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Feb 10, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and he took the bait!

by Michaeltastic on Feb 10, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha

one will sneak by gramsey some day.

by rolypoly32 on Feb 10, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Only if Tuna beats me to it!

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Feb 11, 2009 8:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The funny thing was, I was just sitting here and work and started thinking that "Someone just posted that we should have drafted CUTLER!!!!111!!!!!11 on the blog."

I should go on Oprah with my psychicness.

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Feb 11, 2009 8:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

On Collins being out of his mind. The two options laid out here though I don’t like.

1) VY is NOT ready. Why? Because he never will be. He is a failure as a QB and will never develop into the emotional leader we need.

2) We can’t get Matt Cassel. We don’t have a high enough pick to trade for him. If you see some of the scenarios the Patriots are considering for him, we could never come close to matching them. Nor should we. Two first round picks for this guy? I know he played decently well, but he also stepped into the position surrounded by the personnel from the greatest offense in the history of the NFL with the greatest coach of the past decade. It would’ve been shocking if he hadn’t made SOME progress. I think whoever gets him will be in for a rude awakening when they realize Cassel doesnt come with Belichek’s brain.

http://t-racsposse.blogspot.com

by T--Rac's Posse on Feb 10, 2009 3:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

part of my whole collins over warner opinion

is the undeniable fact that collins should get paid less. if he want’s what warner gets, he can start walking now.

cassel isn’t happenning because he is going to be in NE this year. “the word” around beantown is that brady is a big, big question mark heading into next season. only way he gets loose is once they are POSITIVE brady will be healed, and that decision won’t be made for a long time, making it unlikely he will end up elsewhere, i think. who wants cassel if he can’t attend minicamps, or doesn’t get cut until preseason? i don’t like any of the option that i am aware of, frankly:

pay collins too much
pay warner too much
VY/simms competition in training camp
or
jeff garcia’s corpse?
grossman?
leftwich?
losman?

blech.

The Official Enforcer of MCM

by hal41605 on Feb 10, 2009 5:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

This gets worse and worse

I’ve been digging into the stats for other Free agent quarterbacks. All of them have comparable numbers to Kerry, but would come at a much smaller price tag. To give you an idea of how underwhelming Kerry’s numbers are (mind you I’m comparing career numbers), here is the company he shares:

Charlie Batch – 77.9
Byron Leftwich – 80.3
David Carr – 74.9
JP Losman – 75.6
Luke McCown – 75.2
JT O’Sullivan – 71.0
Patrick Ramsey – 74.9
Kerry Collins – 73.8

*Note that I don’t think QB rating is the end all, be all metric for QB success, but it does give us a pretty good feel for performance.

by SuperHorn on Feb 10, 2009 5:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Well...

QB rating isn’t even a reliable statistic… And why career numbers and not just this past season? I know why, that would make Kerry look better than all these characters.

Kerry will not get as much money as he and/or his agent are asking for… That’s a fact, so this as far as I’m concerned is a dead issue. Of course they are gonna ask for the most money possible, what are they supposed to start low and work their way up expecting teams to offer more money?

by Big Bad Bulluck on Feb 10, 2009 5:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

QB rating isn’t even a reliable statistic… And why career numbers and not just this past season? I know why, that would make Kerry look better than all these characters.

It’s not that. It’s that all of the others weren’t even good enough to start!

by SuperHorn on Feb 10, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

who gives a damn about his career numbers?

the here and now my friend. what he did in oakland and new york and carolina could not be more irrelevant. but i bet you knew that already.

we saw exactly who he was this past season. he is a middle of the road qb who is old and wise enough to be able to make the right reads, minimize mistakes, get the ball out quickly, and let the team around him win games. that’s what happened almost all year until the meltdown of all meltdowns against baltimore. it amazes me how people continue to ignore that collins was more than good enough to win if an assortment of other titans do anything but blow the game with crucial mistakes.

collins is probably playing hardball because he sees that we have no other good options, and is betting we don’t want to waste any years having a superbowl caliber team be held back by a shitty qb. trent dilfer has worse stats than all of those guys you just listed. ask baltimore how that worked out for them. you know who else has a qb rating perfectly in line with dilfer’s? terry bradshaw at 70.9. i’m guessing steelers fans don’t get too caught up in his career passing numbers, what do you think?

The Official Enforcer of MCM

by hal41605 on Feb 10, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Brilliant

So out of one side of you’re mouth you say the here is now, and out of the other you use Terry Bradshaw as support for Kerry?

The game Terry Bradshaw played is vastly different from the one Kerry Collins or Trent Dilfer played in recent years.

But, to your question:

i’m guessing steelers fans don’t get too caught up in his career passing numbers, what do you think?

Actually, I bet they did look at the numbers. And, to their delight, they saw that Terry was one of the best passers in his time, especially later in his career.

Below are his quarterback rating rankings as they related to the rest of the league. The ~ next to a ranking means he didn’t throw 200 passes that year. The * next to a ranking means they went to the Superbowl.

1970 (#24)
1971 (#17)
1972 (#9)
1973 (15)
1974 (21)*
1975 (#4)*
1976 (#14)
1977 (#7)
1978 (#2)*
1979 (#8)*
1980 (#14)
1981 (#6)
1982 (#7)

His stats won’t floor you, but for his time he was consistently one of the better quarterbacks in the league. Comparing his rating to ratings of today will get us nowhere, though. It was a different game.

Let me also clarify that I only used Kerry’s career rating because I couldn’t use the other players ratings from last year since they didn’t start. I thought it was only fair to give Collins the same treatment. Either way, his rating was only 80.2, nothing to write home about. I’d also point out that while we are in the “now”, there is almost always a regression to the mean. To expect an improvement on 80.2, which is already higher than his average, is a mistake.

And, please don’t bring up Trent Dilfer again. He’s exactly what I don’t want the Titans to have at quarterback. Yes, the Ravens won a Superbowl with him, but it was in spite of him.

Last…

it amazes me how people continue to ignore that collins was more than good enough to win if an assortment of other titans do anything but blow the game with crucial mistakes.

I don’t know if this was directed at me, but I’ve never pointed at finger at Kerry for that loss. I thought he played fine.

by SuperHorn on Feb 11, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would take Garcia

He’s what Vince should strive to be… A mobile QB that uses his legs to buy time and make plays.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Feb 10, 2009 5:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

he's still 40 though.

not sure he is the answer to the starter question. if simms and KC bounce though, he would probably be one of the best bets.

The Official Enforcer of MCM

by hal41605 on Feb 10, 2009 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think I would take

Garcia over Collins.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.

by Jimmy on Feb 10, 2009 8:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Negotiation Ploy

Kerry and his agent are playing contract negotiation games and I don’t think there is that much of a market for Collins. I think when all is said and done we will sign Kerry for about 2 years 10 million with about half of it gaurnteed.

by TitanRob on Feb 10, 2009 9:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't watch

the Bucs a lot, but every time I do I can’t help but think… What a pain in the ass it must be to try and stop Garcia.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Feb 10, 2009 9:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

true...

but everything I have heard says he is kind of a pain to coach too because he drops his reads and runs out of the pocket due to his size. Plus he really can only play in the West Coast Offense. And I am pretty sure we run the opposite of the West Coast Offense.

http://t-racsposse.blogspot.com

by T--Rac's Posse on Feb 10, 2009 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The East Coast Offense?

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.

by Jimmy on Feb 11, 2009 7:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

It just screams New Jersey.

http://t-racsposse.blogspot.com

by T--Rac's Posse on Feb 11, 2009 8:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Mid South Offense?

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Feb 11, 2009 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Where deep passes are just like whiskey...

you can’t buy ’em on Sundays!

Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.

by August West on Feb 11, 2009 8:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mid South is not the opposite of West Coast

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.

by Jimmy on Feb 11, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No kidding Tuna, but it is more applicable than East Coast

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Feb 11, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If you ask my mother, Mid-South is the opposite of Connecticut.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

by DannoE on Feb 11, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is a funny

ridiculous discussion lol

by Big Bad Bulluck on Feb 12, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i like collins over vince for now

but not if we have to over pay him. we can find another game manager for cheaper. and as mediocre as vince has been recently, hes a viable option so the risk of letting collins walk isn’t that high.

by rolypoly32 on Feb 10, 2009 9:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Brett Favre is available

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Feb 11, 2009 9:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

until he changes his mind tomorrow...

Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.

by August West on Feb 11, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Kerry had Fitzgerald and Boldin I’m sure his stats from last year would be more like Warners. How many bad balls did you see Warner throw this year and were only td’s cause its Fitz that hes throwing to. If Kerry just threw balls up like that to our horrible receivers one word PICKED!!!! He doesnt have great receivers so he has to throw strikes…and when he has too he does….when cj is on the sidelines being a little baby sally whos gonna do the job not lendale…it’s gonna be kerry throwing to our horrible receivers…with that being said sign Kerry, get him Boldin, or T.J. and lets win the F’n Super Bowl!!!!

by tennekid on Feb 11, 2009 10:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Kerry has shown us nothing

In his long career that would make me believe he could ever touch Warner’s numbers.

by SuperHorn on Feb 11, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What did CJ do to piss you off?

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Feb 11, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

must be one of those cats

who were calling in 104.56 whining that CJ didn’t go out there and try to run on a busted-up ankle.

Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.

by August West on Feb 11, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No kidding.

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Feb 11, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

except that he was in on 2 more runs after they bent him back

facts>noise

The Official Enforcer of MCM

by hal41605 on Feb 12, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

cj is SICK are you out of your mind...

without him on the squad where would we be??? same offense as last year at 10-6. Where are we now 13-3 hmm… let me think for a second, if your mad at anyone it should be at Ed Reed’s dirty ass. It’s not cj’s fault that he did him like that, cuz if i remember correctly he was gettin in the Raven’s ass in the 1st half.

Titan 4 Life

by titsahoy on Feb 11, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They could fight with salad forks...

…on a tight-rope, suspended over a tank of hungry alligators while naked savages hurled rocks and flaming javelins from all sides!

I’m pretty that would do about a million PPV buys.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

by DannoE on Feb 11, 2009 3:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Here's what kinda cat i am....

In a big game like that CJ should fight through it and be in there cause he knows the team needs him and without him they are a different team…i dont know if you remember a guy named McNair that would play with a high ankle sprain, cracked sternum, anything in the regular season let alone the playoffs…Thats the stuff that makes you great and with CJ lobbying for rookie of the year as much as he was, staying in there and gettin it done could have solidified that…instead the guy on the other side wins Flacco weird…79 yards in the first half he was embarrasing that ?Great Ravens D?…Something he wanted to do as weak as his regular season performance was against them…But no one talks about the great first half he had just the fact that he was on the sidelines as we blew it…

I Miss McNair....

by tennekid on Feb 11, 2009 8:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

There was a lot of talk about that

but it is impossible for us to know if he could have played or not. Eddie playing with a separated shoulder is completely different. Remember, CJ missed the Pro Bowl because of that ankle.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.

by Jimmy on Feb 12, 2009 7:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ridiculous

he’s not a quarterback, he’s a speed running back. his entire game comes down to how his ankles respond when he cuts, tries to avoid a tackle, and accelerates quickly.

The Official Enforcer of MCM

by hal41605 on Feb 12, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

CUTLER!!!!1111!!!!!!111 would have played on 3 broken ankles.

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Feb 12, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think just maybe

they taped up the ankle and he still couldn’t even walk on it let alone run? A severely sprained ankle when done the right way can be impossible to run on. Its not like we are talking about Eddie, a 6ft 3in 230 pound RB that ran straight up the field through holes running through tacklers here. I’m sure he wasn’t saying coach I don’t wanna go back in, My ankle isn’t that bad, but I’m a p*%y and don’t wanna play anymore today.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Feb 12, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

trust me

Trust me I love CJ just a little let down….we need another warrior like mcnair was

I Miss McNair....

by tennekid on Feb 11, 2009 8:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

One more thing

Eddie played in the 03 playoffs with a separated shoulder…and choke slammed the murderer Ray Lewis…thats the kind of warrior we need…to step up when we need him..by the way we won that game

I Miss McNair....

by tennekid on Feb 11, 2009 9:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

best. game. ever.

that hit on Ray Ray was exactly what this city needed.

Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.

by August West on Feb 12, 2009 8:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah i know when we ran all up on the Raven's D......

Eddie had like a 130 yards rushing and thats when the Raven’s hadn’t allowed a 100 yard rusher for like a year and a half straight. Eddie was a soldier. And so was Steve but you have to know when to play and when not to, you act as if though cj pulled himself out of the game. It was obviously a coaches choice on that situation because a rookie is not going to pull them selves out of a playoff game.

Titan 4 Life

by titsahoy on Feb 11, 2009 10:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I knew who authored this post before I even looked.

HAH!

The PAIN TRAIN is comin baby!

by BigW on Feb 12, 2009 8:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Cassell = System QB

Put the ball in VY’s hands and have Simms as the backup.

by Boddhi Oak on Feb 12, 2009 2:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Just in reading through the news, rotoworld, etc...

Is anyone else getting the feeling that both Albert and Kerry are gone?

by SuperHorn on Feb 12, 2009 4:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

kerry yes

i’m still praying we step back from the edge of the cliff with albert. brand new, totally inexperienced DC, lets not do something stupid to make his transition even harder like, o i don’t know, sitting on our hands while the best player on our defense(and team) walks out the door.

The Official Enforcer of MCM

by hal41605 on Feb 12, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs