VY Contract Status
by arilou on Dec 14, 2009 3:21 PM CST
57 comments
In advance, sorry for being a huge n00b. I am pretty ignorant when it comes to how NFL contracts work. From what I understand/read, VY is owed several millions if he is retained through 2010, and the Titans will save around 9 million by cutting him after this season. For starters, I don't really understand how players can sign multi-year contracts and then get released in the middle of it. Doesn't that undermine the word "contract"??
But besides that, there have been many posts that are optimistic about the team's future. "VY/CJ/KB!!" While I agree, this would be awesome, how confident are you guys that VY is actually staying here?? If I were VY I would honestly be thinking about asking for a release to go to a team with BOTH a head coach that actually actively wants him and willing to adapt to his special abilities as a player.
Does it basically just come down to if Bud wants to dole the 9 mil to keep VY? Because if that's the case, I am optimistic about him staying for another season. If not, I really think he is gone next year (and Joy Kat will not have to suffer rooting for VY - or not LOL).
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He'll stay
More than likely they will renegotiate his contract. I know that some people have said, “IF I WAS VY I WOULDNT RENEGOTIATE!!!!” Well, I imagine he will. He won’t get close to the money he will with the Titans anywhere else, even after renegotiation. He has played well, but it’s been for what will be 8-10 games.
On top of it, his perception around the league, fair or not, is still “off-field problem”. The story from last year about his emotional issues is something teams will be wary for. Bottom line is his value is much higher with the Titans than with any other team, and it will be reflected in his renegotiation vs. what he would get from the rest of the NFL.
It’s an interesting situation. However, when it comes down to it, he won’t go anywhere else. The Titans won’t let him get away because no team enjoys trying to rebuild around a rookie QB and frankly, I think the fan outrage would be tremendous. More than any we (or the Titans) have ever seen here.
To sum up, it is in everybody’s best interest to keep VInce here, which leads me to think something will get worked out.
T-Rac's Posse - T-Rac is one boss raccoon.
My personal Tribute to Air McNair
Disagree.
For three reasons, one which you’ve already said for me:
However, when it comes down to it, he won’t go anywhere else. The Titans won’t let him get away because no team enjoys trying to rebuild around a rookie QB and frankly, I think the fan outrage would be tremendous. More than any we (or the Titans) have ever seen here.
Two. Everyone knew Vince was a project, and he’d take a while to develop. They knew when they signed that contract that he’d be paid top 3 money in year 5. And, if they knew he’d be playing at the level he’s at now, especially considering how Cutler and Leinart have panned out, I have no doubt that they’d STILL execute that contract. People can throw around the past all they want, but the bottom line is he’s playing well now and continues to get better.
Three. If there is a cap next year, we’re not going to get close to reaching it anyways. It’s one thing if Bud tells Vince he needs to take a haircut to keep Bulluck, or to sign Anquan. It’s another if they ask him to take a pay decrease just because they feel they shouldn’t have offered this big of a contract to ANY quarterback in the first place.
The whole thing’s ridiculous to me. You don’t offer someone a contract unless you’re going to keep up your end of the bargain. It’s disingenuous. Did they really expect he’d be a top 3 quarterback at this point? Those expectations are ridiculous for any draft pick. He’s playing at a top 10-15 level. The salary would be dramatically higher to draft a quarterback again in the top 5 picks (see Staffords pick), and there is risk involved. We basically know what we have with Vince, it’s not worth the risk associated with f’ing up this offense with the hopes that the next guy is a top 3 quarterback in 4-5 years. The logic is retarded.
vy will start here
you cant say that about any other successful franchise. if he knows what is good for him, he will renegotiate.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
it means no other franchise
the only places in the nfl where he could come in and start as a free agent are crummy franchises.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
That door swings both ways.
Vince has the front office by the balls. We saw it in the first 6 games of the year, and we saw it yesterday. Kerry can’t cut it. And, even if we pretend for a minute that he can, what happens after next year? Another crapshoot in the draft?
This franchise is still navigating through the shit storm caused by the first 6 losses. Think about the reaction that would be caused if the front office elects to throw away this momentum they are riding into next season over a few million dollars.
This is a business decision. An easy one. I mean do they really want to split hairs over what will amount to a few million dollars of a contract? That’s peanuts compared to the fallout that would take place if they cut Vince.
I disagree. Vince has some leverage, but he by no means has the front office by the balls
The front office has leverage as well. He won’t get anywhere close to that type of money from any other team. He probably won’t get as close to the type of money offered in a renegotiation. Both sides have some leverage. Both sides are better off staying with the current situation. Common sense dictates that this will lead to a renegotiation, but Vince will still be here.
Lets not over-exaggerate his play so far. He has played efficient, but he has not played spectacularly. He has run the offense as it should be run and has not turned the ball over. However, he still struggles to anticipate receivers getting open and in the Cardinals and Colts game, the two best teams he has played since his comeback, he has struggled with passing in the Red Zone mightily.
I am not trying to bring Vince down, I am very encouraged to have him as the QB of the future for my favorite NFL team, I am just saying he isn’t going to get any sort of substantial interest from outside NFL teams if he decides to take an all-or-nothing with his approach to his contract and ends up getting cut.
T-Rac's Posse - T-Rac is one boss raccoon.
My personal Tribute to Air McNair
by T--Rac's Posse on Dec 14, 2009 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not over-exaggerating anything.
He’s a top 10-15 quarterback, and he appears to be getting better.
And, I think you’re wrong about other teams not wanting to pick him up. I think he could get that same renegotiated money elsewhere. Not that it matters, because the Titans serve to lose too much than to split hairs over a few million dollars.
Free agent quarterbacks that signed with new teams this year:
Matt Cassel – 6 years – 60 million
David Garrard – 6 years – 60 million
Kerry Collins – 2 years – 15 million
Vince Young’s initial contract – 6 years – 58 million. He’s due $7.5 with a $4.5 mm roster bonus.
For some more perspective:
Eli Manning – 7 years – $107 mm – He’s due $6.5 mm and a $12 mm bonus.
Matthew Stafford – 6 years – $72 mm
Regardless of where he is specifically in the QB pecking order...
…he’s worth a considerable amount to the franchise just because he’s such a media curiosity. I mean, look, Nashville already has to struggle to get put on the NFL map, and that’s WITH the longest tenured head coach, perhaps the greatest college player in history as their QB, and an occasionally dominant and generally entertaining defense. So, bottom line, if you take VY and Bulluck out of the equation, suddenly there’s not much reason to cover TN at a national level. And that ain’t good, especially with revenue sharing on its way out.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
the only leverage a player like vince can have
is his implied free market value, i.e. the assurance that he can make good money elsewhere. i don’t think he really has that yet, and most quality franchises wouldn’t take him over what they have.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
i just don't think many teams
are going to look at 60% of a season when his numbers have been good but by no means gaudy and decide to invest a ton of money in him and make him their starter from day one. i think the titans will pay him plenty, but good franchises don’t take #1 qb in the league type salary cap hits for someone who is still honestly a work in progress.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
Wrong. That's not how negotiations work.
It’s not necessarily about market value elsewhere. It’s about his value to the Tennessee Titans. It will cost them more in the long run to cut him than it would to pony up and pay what they offered him in the first place, especially when you consider the alternatives. Ie: It’s not like you immediately save all that money. You will take a cap hit for cutting him. And, after you take that cap hit, you have to sign another quarterback. So, in the end, you’re going to spend the same amount anyways if you consider that a decent QB will command Kerry Collins money ($7.5 mm). It costs you $4.92 to cut Vince.
vince also doesn't get paid
just for spiting the titans. if he walks, it might not be the best for the titans, but is also sure as hell isnt the best for him either
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
the other point in all of this that needs to be said
is renegotiating doesn’t necessarily mean vince makes less money, it just means that it’s restructured to spread the cap out better. he could very well earn more in both the long and short term with a new deal. the titans just need to address that 14 mill number for next year, but that 14 doesnt actually mean he stands to make 14 mil next year, it also includes his bonuses and other structural calculations.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
hopefully there are successful negotiations....
and the titans are able to keep him under center, that would be in the best interest for the team, a qb who is still young who has shown alot of progress and not really any major signs of degressing. i do have a slight fear that he would be looking to move on, crummy franchises doesnt exactly mean crummy fans, and would it be nice to go to a place that is not going to boo you even in a time where he doesnt play too great and are going to stick with you through thick and thin (isnt cutler lucky). and if he does become a free agent i think there will be more teams than expected that would jump to get VY on the roster, why not, what he can bring to the running game should speak for itself. how many times have we heard the word “spying” these last 6 weeks than the first 6 weeks, alot of it contributed to Vince himself, it seems alot of D coordinators have not forgotten what he did at Texas. im hoping bud will go 2 for 2 on the decisions regarding VY. love it how bud threw up the longhorns before letting the birds fly against buffalo, in saying that i hope he stays conVINCEd.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
what are we talking about?
in 6 games Vince has established himself as a top 15 quarterback. Imagine what his quarterback rating yesterday would have been.
He is “the guy” We all saw what happenned when he left. Take a look around the league and look at all the teams who “really” have a qb problem. I’m glad thats not us. Vince will be a top 10 qb next year with the titans.
I see fisher and VY hugging during warm ups they are fine. The real VY era is just beginning and I for one am really excited.
no one becomes a top tier qb in 6 games
that’s the kind of reasoning that landed charlie weiss a gazillion dollars that they now have to pay him to go away. vince is on the right track, but 6 games is only 6 games.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
true but
when i look at the starting qbs around the league….I feel good about ours
by zero defects on Dec 14, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
Fine. Let's make it simple.
Hal, for a minute, you get to be Mike Reinfeldt. You, MR, tell Vince that you’re going to renegotiate your contract. Vince tells you he’s not renegotiating.
Do you cut him or keep him?
it's a tough question
but i think the assumption that is has to be adversarial like that is off base. there is most certainly a middle ground to be found which is good for the franchise and good for vince. i’m very happy about the way he is headed, but you do not eat up more than 10% of the cap on a qb unless he is among the league’s proven elite, and vince isn’t yet. if there are no better options then you have to pay what you have to pay, but they should and hopefully will make a concerted effort to make that cap number more reasonable.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
You said it.
if there are no better options then you have to pay what you have to pay
And, that’s really all I’m saying as well. I don’t think that’s “adversarial”, either. It’s just a guy making his money in a nasty sport.
Now, to be clear, if it is a renegotiation for the betterment of the team, ie to resign some guys or sign a big name and stay under the cap, then Vince has a decision to make. I think he should and would renegotiate under that scenario.
But, I don’t you, or me, or anyone here would renegotiate a contract at work just because some higher up says they are getting paid above market. If that’s the only reason, it’s not good enough. The Titans executed that contract, and unless they are going to spend it elsewhere, there is no sense in Vince restructuring anything.
And, I don’t think there is a situation that works for both parties, but maybe I don’t know enough about cap implications. I would assume that a renegotiation would involve another back loaded contract that could involve a similar situation a few years from now. If they aren’t paying now, I wouldn’t anticipate they’d pay later either.
both can definitely benefit
in terms of “back loading”, that doesn’t have to mean vy gets paid on the back end, just that the cap hit is spread out and pushed back. with a new contract, he would presumably get a new and immediate signing bonus which would be much larger than the roster bonus he is due under the current deal. they could give him a 15-20 mil signing bonus, and as long as it is a 5-6 year extension, which it would be, that bonus would only represent a 3-4 mill per year cap number on its own, plus base salary, which would be much lower in the immediate future than his current deal, and other bonuses and stuff. the #1 best salary mechanism for a player in the nfl is the signing bonus, and you don’t get one of those unless you make a new deal.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
I doubt there will be a cap next year.
With that in mind, this contract looks like it was well constructed back in the day.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I remember Troy Aikman...
….was always renegotiating his contract. He was interviewed once and said that he will never play to he end of his contract. Jones kept extending the years so he could amortize it over a longer period of time. Troy was still getting paid. Bottom line is renegotiations are a common thing.
So you're telling me that Al Davis would not sign Vince?
He instantly increases their running attack. VY has leverage…don’t be mistaken.
However, those close to Vince will tell you that he’s never been about the money.
Yeah, I would have to say....
that there is another factor to this that everybody is overlooking…like the fact that his mentor played here…and VY is very aware that he & #9 are highly respected here. I think that goes along way with Vince. Plus, I think he & his team mates have become very close…especially C…ya…J…not to mention how much pressure that it takes off of him to have a rb of that caliber in his backfield. So yes, I would agree…it’s not ALL about the $$$.
by titansfan4ever on Dec 15, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
I will probably not watch many games with VY at qb.
I haven’t watched much since he took over. I am not saying he isn’t the guy for the job, I just choose not to watch while he is in there. Therefore my posts have been few and far between to the excitement of many here. Not only that, we were gone for awhile on vacation. Anyhow, until a change is made I will not be participating much on this forum. Read the story about Eric Crouch and maybe you will understand my reluctance to cheer for VY. I am the ultimate husker fan, but Eric Crouch is a cry baby to me.
too late....
i think she may get a kick out of getting bashed….
by Bonafidebrother on Dec 15, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
I couldn't agree more with Joy kat here
I mean who doesn’t want their favorite team to sit the guy that is clearly better suited for the job?!?!???!?!???11!!?
I pay more attention to the games now that Nick Harper is in there because he is worse than Rod Hood. That, to me, is the way the game should be played. Always play the guy that is worse and only watch the game when your team is doing that. That is why I was so upset when the Titans didn’t re-up Renaldo Hill. No one was worse out there than him.
That post might be the dumbest thing ever written on the blog.
Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.
by Jimmy on Dec 15, 2009 8:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
so ....
does she watch the defense and then leave the room for a while? This hurts my brain…
by zero defects on Dec 15, 2009 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
Hahahahaha!
Where’s Lamont Thompson when you need him? And Yancey Thigpen?
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
A true fan...
puts up with the shit they do not like. I can not understand how you can call yourself a fan and just because the starting QB is not your pick you will no longer watch games or share opinions on a blog??? WTF I hate Harper and I am not huge on Amano, but I still cheer their asses on each and every game day!!!
by bullrider73 on Dec 15, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
joy kat, i was kidding
you didnt have to crucify yourself to everyone on this blog
but it looks like its already too late
One of those posts that should be turned doo doo brown
by gramsey712 on Dec 15, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
If only there was a way to do this
by bullrider73 on Dec 15, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
Holy Crap Batman
That is without a doubt one of the silliest things I have ever read. It sounds like “I don’t really pull for the Titans unless they do exactly what I want them to” Wah Wah
"If Bobby doesn't love football, he won't lead a fulfilling life, and then he'll die" - Hank Hill
Re-sign Keith Bulluck
by Voluntitan23 on Dec 15, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
"I choose not to watch while he is in there"
Well you’ve missed some really exciting football including one of the greatest 99 yard drives in nfl history.
i’m sorry for you
by zero defects on Dec 15, 2009 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
"Welcome back T-Mac baby!!...I believe."
VY's (to all his haters/doubters): "I love ya'll too!!"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
Funny how Joy Cat talks about
respecting VY for saying that he’s grown up a bit BUT she can’t realize that she hasn’t grown up at all and she is much older than him!!!
Once again....
Joy Kat continues to spread her complete and utter ignorance all over the great website we use to follow our Titans. Eric Crouch in no way should be compared to V.Y. It is ridiculous and irresponsible. This makes me seriously question Joy Kat’s motivation on all of her perceived hatred of VY….i wouldn’t put it pass her that it was Joy Kat her self that posted those pictures of VY at the party to stir up some mess about him.
If you call yourself a Tennessee Titan fan, then support the team in their decisions even if you don’t agree with them(except for nick harper…LOL) ….but to say that you wont watch the team because he is the QB is simply inexcusable….i am wondering if you left your brain on vacation because the garbage that you call “posts” are dumbfounding to me and a whole lot of people on this blog. If you dont like him, find another team becasue he is going to be the QB for quite a while…i am sure someone will let Mike and the front Office know your displeasure with VY and they will move selecting another QB to top of thier board….
by Bonafidebrother on Dec 15, 2009 1:36 PM CST reply actions
Well Joy kat
just remember VY loves you and all the other haters out there.
by keid1020 on Dec 16, 2009 2:25 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
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