In response to the Vince hater haters.
by stetix01 on Nov 5, 2009 7:39 AM CST
111 comments
It seems that now that VY is back and played very well the "I told ya so-ers" are out in force. (which as we know can and will change if he does poorly this week against the 9ers). Anyone who has ever questioned vince about anything are being painted with the same brush. I cringe everytime I read a post that implies that you have to hate vince just because you questioned his heart or his head. I've always felt that VY has the skills but he may have lost that competitive edge. I dont love him or hate him.
So my question is simple, do you hate vince or have you simply lost confidence in him? (jags game notwithstanding)
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I don’t “hate” anyone…
… I just want what’s best for the team.
Young is a great athlete but he is a poor passer. Once he can no longer make plays with his feet, he’s finished. People who are big VY supporters don’t want to admit that the guy can only complete shorter passes. He can’t throw the ball accurately enough deep downfield. That is why most of his passes go to TEs and RBs.
I was hopeful for 3 years that VY would eventually become a better down the field passer. I hoped maybe someday he would put up decent passing numbers & be able to air it out deep to the WRs. But here it is, his 4th year & he still throws like he always has. VY won the Rookie of the Year award but he hasn’t gotten any better as a football player. If anything, he has gotten worse. Just look at his stats.
They prove that statement is true.
IMO, Young has 9 more games in which to show me (and all the other doubters) that he can complete passes to the WRs down the field. Honestly, why did they sign a guy like Nate Washington to stretch the field if the QB can’t throw the ball accurately deep?
All I know is if the team has a chance to draft one of those stud QBs coming out next April, they really should consider drafting one of them. Then re-do VY’s contract and let VY and the new rookie battle it out for the starting job. Best man wins…
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 5, 2009 8:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why do you think VY made...
ProBowl? Regarless of his INTs or whatever he still made the Pro Bowl and it doesn’t matter if someone got hurt for him to make it because they still Voted him to go! Instead of anyother QB option in the NFL!
by datboybevans on Nov 6, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not necessarily true
Pro Bowl alternates aren’t judged on who voted for whom, but on players from playoff teams going.
by furrycolt on Nov 6, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
VY made the Pro Bowl
because McNair turned the trip down. Simple as that. Dont get all pissy, Im a VY fan too, but Im just sayin…
by bull4real on Nov 7, 2009 12:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
See what i mean
“Young is a great athlete but he is a poor passer. Once he can no longer make plays with his feet, he’s finished. "
It’s these types of statements that fire up the VY supporters. Seriously, you just go around predicting the future and call it logic.
Oh…and for the record. Heimerdinger seems to be fine with the shorter passes even when he had KC.
“Titans offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger told me this week he’s more concerned with completion percentage and the average gain per throw than chucking passes down the field.”
by earlers on Nov 5, 2009 2:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
all he is saying
is that in vince’s career in the NFL he has shown to be a below average passer. not exactly a bold statement. it was nice to see him do well in the jax game, but that’s one of the easiest scenarios vince is ever going to see in the NFL. if he can keep his passing clean on a regular basis against high level opponents while running a more ambitious playbook, then obviously the diagnosis will change, but until then, i (as a “hater”, i guess) will continue to skeptical of vince’s ability to be an effective starting QB in the NFL.
but there are no rush limabaughs around here “hoping he fails”. the titans will be in a nasty spot trying to draft a #1 QB if VY can’t prove himself the rest of the season. a lot of people, however, remember how bad his passing has been thus far and therefore are hesitant to put much faith in him going forward.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
by hal41605 on Nov 5, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you guys serious!
Anyone who knows how to throw a football can hit someone deep down the field did anyone even watch the preseason games? VY threw the ball perfect on the deep plays but the WR stopped running and the ball landed right in front of him! Anyone that watched texas play knows that VY has no problem throwing a deep ball he just has to have a reciever that can get seperation! And as of know I feel he finally has WRs that will get seperation Kenny Britt and Nate Washington, even Jared Cook won’t have a problem getting seperation deep and you will see VY complete some deep passes! But if no one is getting seperation then whats the point of throwing it deep? Gage is a decent wideout but he doesn’t really have the speed to get under the ball that is why you see him getting overthrow alot!
by datboybevans on Nov 6, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the reason for that is because…
… VY has shown he can’t throw the deep ball. The team doesn’t trust him enough to keep trying. And the times that they have let him he has shown he isn’t accurate.
So they concentrate on running the ball and having a stellar defense in order to win games. Since old “game manager” Kerry Collins isn’t the passer he once was, they have him throwing those shorter passes, too.
But to say that the Titans wouldn’t be throwing more deep balls due to the system isn’t correct. They would if the QBs on the roster were better at it. Put Peyton Manning on the team and see if they have him throwing nothing but short passes to the TEs and the RBs.
Put a strong armed, accurate QB in there and you’d see the offense change to take advantage of that. Had the Titans drafted Cutler instead of Young, you’d definitely see more balls going down field. Our running game would be opening up the deep routes. When the opponents switched coverage to protect against the pass then the running game would open up. No more 8 men in the box. Other teams put 8 men in the box and dare us to beat them throwing the ball. The fact that VY isn’t throwing for 250+ when that happens shows that he isn’t a great passer. That’s not opinion. Look at the stats. It’s a fact.
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 5, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
CUTLER!!!!!!!!11111111!!!!!!!!!1
Official MCM Hater!
Retire #9!
by gramsey712 on Nov 5, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BS, BS, BS, BS
The deep ball was VY’s best throw in college. He also threw some great ones for the Titans. I can’t remember the games, but on a couple of the few times he’s gotten a chance he’s had some very bad drops. I’m not saying it is the receiver’s fault. What I’m saying is that he is in FACT (though it isn’t a fact and neither are any of the things you’re saying are FACT) very good at the deep ball. We have been lacking WR’s with the speed or ability to create separation and haul the ball in.
I think Britt and Washington give us that option.
I think because he’s black and can run and had a mediocre season with some unfortunate luck (Madden curse?) that people like you state things like “he can’t throw the deep ball” or “can’t find receivers down field” as FACT when in reality they are merely your opinion and when individual throws are broken down on a case by case basis as a summation of his stats, your opinion is proven baseless.
Like, who the FOCK would think that VY can’t throw a touch fade? Have you ever watched him play where he’s allowed to throw it? I could post dozens of perfectly thrown fade routes by VY. The one he threw to Washington was a spitting image of the one he threw to Ramonce Taylor against OU his JR year except that it was about 10 yards shorter (didn’t he also throw one this preseason?).
Look, VY had trouble adjusting to NFL speed and different looks on D. As a result, his decision making suffered and as a result his passing #’s suffered. That has NOTHING to do with his ability to throw a good deep ball or fade route or whatever.
If you want to stick with your hastily determined preconceptions of VY’s ability, that is fine. Just be prepared to defend your stance against mounting evidence to contrary. He will throw bad passes and struggle often (as all QB’s do), yet he will also throw a few absolutely perfect balls (as all winning NFL QB’s do). Such is life as a human. Things are not always black or white.
by T the D on Nov 5, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i wanna say....
peyton himself had an absurd number of INT’s his first few years in the league right??? yes peyton is peyton, but just goes to show everybody that INT’s will happen.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 5, 2009 8:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
“Hastily determined preconceptions”, my ass…
VY is in his 4th year. He should be better than he is. For a 4th year QB to be throwing for only 125 yards in a game is terrible.
Sorry, but I am getting tired of waiting for this guy to live up to all the hype. And that BS he pulled on the team last season was just about the last straw for me.
IMO, VY has 9 more games to prove he’s ‘’the man’‘. If he don’t start showing me something (besides his running ability) then I want the team to draft someone else.
Lots of guys look great in college but never amount to a hill of beans in the NFL. Look at how many QBs won the Heisman Trophy but never did anything in the pros. VY looks like poor man’s Michael Vick to me. He shows he’s a weapon running the ball and the media hypes him up tremendously so some fans blindly fall in love with him and cream in their pants every time he does anything slightly positive. I tried to remain positive about him. His regression from his rookie season to his 2nd season was awful. His supporters claimed it was just a “sophomore slump”. Then came year #3 and the whole ‘injury/mental issues/quitting on the team’ BS episode. After all that, you still expect people to believe this guy will live up to the hype that basically came from that one big game he had in college championship game VS USC?
Look, I am a TITANS fan first and a players fan SECOND. If Tennessee can acquire a better QB than VY then I want that guy instead. Period. Until VY shows me he can be a ‘complete’ QB, I refuse to buy into the hype anymore. He has “potential” out the wazoo but potential ain’t nothing if it’s never fully realized…
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 5, 2009 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its really his 3rd year..
I dont even count last year as a season for him..it was a season he should have had his rookie year to acclimate himself to the speed of the NFL.
He threw 125 yards cause CJ tore it up..if those long gainers were only 5-10 yards each, he would have had to pass more and gotten above 200, so dont say 125 yards in a game is terrible.
I really believe he had a sophomore slump, as well as not having reliable receivers, and his third year was a rough patch in his otherwise decent career. Madden Curse or not, he helped take us from 8-8 to 10-6, to our first win this season. I’ll take 10-6 every year.
In my eyes..so far so good.
I am really excited to watch Vince, CJ, White, Britt, Cook, Scaife, Washington get their chemistry going. That is a good group of talent my friends.
by TITANS 'n LAKERS FaN 4 Life on Nov 5, 2009 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just because he got hurt & didn’t handle that situation well doesn’t make him look too good.
After that whole fiasco last season, I question his ability to live up to his draft position.
Lucky for VY, Bud Adams seems to still have a man crush on him.
Most other owners would be looking to ship this guy down the road after his major decline from that promising rookie season…
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 5, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's because.....
bud isnt an idiot and doesnt jump the gun, like most of the fans for his team. and just to let you know, its called a sophomore slump because players are not going to fool the defenses the second time around the way they did the first year. defenses are going to adjust to how skilled players are going to play, and that’s just what happened with VY, he had a great showing in his first year and teams were not going to let that happpen his second year. so the sophomore slump is a legit break down of play, and we never had the chance to see how he would play his 3rd year b/c he got hurt, NOT b/c he quit. and come on man, yes VY had a great game vs. USC, not the only one of his career there. the only two games he played bad are the only 2 losses on his record there. the man was UNSTOPPABLE! and hopefully alot of you are wrong and we’ll start to see what play for the titans.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To steeler-hater (again)
How is making the playoffs (VY 2nd season) a “major decline”? Especially when your team (suspect) won only three games two years earlier?
by textitan on Nov 9, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s just talking smack and wants his team to do something other than lose,I am a VY fan but it was cool he went to Tennessee when he was drafted.I watched every game when he was at Texas and VY started just throwing to RB and TE mostly but he found the WR’s not too much longer..He can throw the deep ball just fine dude besides it took 3 years to win the title at Texas and if would’ve came back he would have had another.
A little advice watch some games of your QB in college and not USC maybe a Texas vs Okla state.His record was that good because he was.
by cpabis on Nov 11, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The reason you're seen as having "hasty" preconceptions
Is that your own determination of Young’s scouting is wrong. If anything, Young is MORE accurate on deep throws (although he doesn’t do much of it). Most of his criticism regarding accuracy are the short to intermediate throws through small windows, the ones that require more accuracy. Also, nobody questions Young’s arm strength. It’s not super arm strength but it is more than enough for the NFL.
Also, you are looking too much from one game and in one still very debated, ambigous circumstance to make a sweeping claim on Young’s mental state.
Furthermore, this not Madden; your assumptions that run game = deep throws is a very outdated and overly simplistic view of an offense (something that led Al Davis to draft Heyward-Bey). Deep throws are obviously important, but most throws these days are the short and intermediate routes, even off playaction. Also, arm strength is more important when you’re throwing a 10-15 yard out route from the opposite hash, not when you’re flinging the ball 60 yards through the air. Most deep bombs don’t travel that far, even if the WR will eventually take it there or farther.
And even further, you assume that simply a change in the quarterback the last couple of years would have led to a big change in offensive philosophy from Jeff Fisher. There’s not a whole bunch of evidence for that; Fisher is notorious for a very conservative offense, and it’s not like the Titans had the receivers for an explosive attack like the Eagles have now or the Saints. If Drew Brees replaced VY in 2007, somehow I doubt he’s throwing too many of his favorite four verticals.
If you wanted a QB like Manning, then the Titans shouldn’t have drafted Young. Get mad at the owner/GM rather than VY.
by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 6, 2009 8:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This.
And to steeler-hater:
VY is in his 4th year. He should be better than he is. For a 4th year QB to be throwing for only 125 yards in a game is terrible.
This is ridiculous. We won this game running away. Vince did what he needed to in order to win the game. The fact that you would take anything from his performance short of the near INT as a negative speaks volumes. Kerry Collins had 284 yards in the first Jags game. How did that work out?
by SuperHorn on Nov 6, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me add to this.
Because it’s just too easy. You are shockingly ignorant.
Yards per attempt among top passers this season:
Kurt Warner – 6.8
Jay Cutler – 7.0
Carson Palmer – 7.1
Tom Brady – 7.4
Matt Schaub – 8.3
Peyton Manning – 8.5
Philip Rivers – 8.6
Ben Rothlisberger – 8.8
Aaron Rodgers – 8.8
Career average Y/A:
Jay Cutler – 7.3
Tom Brady – 7.3
Peyton Manning – 7.7
Vince Young last game: 6.94
I should also note that all of the guys from Tom Brady down the top list are on pace to pass for over 4,500 yards. Another way of putting that, in almost any other year, each of those quarterbacks would lead the league in passing.
6.94 Y/A isn’t lighting the world on fire. But, it isn’t close to bad either. Especially considering he had zero turnovers. And, he’s a mobile quarterback.
He also posted the leagues third best passer rating last week among quarterbacks.
by SuperHorn on Nov 6, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this will be good.....
for all those ppl that live and die by stats. and not actually using their vision.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to add just a little more to improve the point above.
125 yards wasn’t enough for you. Vince had 18 attempts. Below are the Y/A for different totals:
150 Yards – 8.3 Y/A
175 Yards – 9.7 Y/A
200 Yards – 11.1 Y/A
I suspect that you think a “good quarterback” would throw for 200+ yards a game. Expecting 11.1 yards per attempt is unreasonable for even the elite quarterbacks in the NFL. Hell, even expecting 150 yards in only 18 attempts isn’t reasonable.
by SuperHorn on Nov 6, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very good,some people live and die by stats and what espn says.
by cpabis on Nov 11, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah....
because cutler doesnt have his problems with INT’s and accuracy, ppl give cutler too much credit. he hasnt even done anything. although i think he is a good qb, he is stinking up the place in chicago. and it never really smelt like roses when he was in denver either. and yeah you would use peyton manning as the right qb for our system, news flash, he could probably succeed in alot of systems. and once again, how about getting him some game time to actually prove something.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 5, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd still take him.
"hey, quit reading these ridiculous words of wisdom and get back to work!"
by stetix01 on Nov 5, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d definitely take Cutler over VY.
Our running game would still be great and we would finally have a QB who can throw the football down the field. Brandon Marshall wouldn’t have been so good a WR if VY had been his QB. Half those times Cutler was throwing the ball to Marshall VY would have tucked the ball under and ran.
As far as throwing goes, Cutler’s a helluva lot better QB than VY is. It ain’t even close…
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 5, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
CJ.....
broke the franchise record on sunday, i think our running game is great now. what r u watching buddy? and theres time that cutler SHOULD tuck the ball and run, instead he forces the issue and thus INT’s happen. yes throwing is the main thing with QB’s but ppl act like VY cant throw at all, he’s got a better comp % than collins does, id take the playmaker. and we havent see how VY throws this year, this last game was just meant to get the rust takin off, we will see this week. and ppl dont be to quick to jump on VY if he doesnt have a great game. its his 2nd one back.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ben.....
roth…dont have the spelling in front of me. lol makes a living on making plays when the offense breaks down on possessions, and that’s the reason he has more super bowls than peyton. yes the steelers have always had a good defense, but the colts are not that bad, and offense won them the super bowl last year. on ben making a play.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Big Ben...
But I also think he was in a better position than most upstart QBs. Good base of players around him from the get go, but he is part of success formula.
by textitan on Nov 9, 2009 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And you would definitely...
…be watching the playoffs with him at home :)
by textitan on Nov 9, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't stand people that.....
Forget the purpose of football! It don’t take a genius to play football the purpose of football is to score touchdowns and win the game! Not to throw for 250+ yards or whatever the hell you think is the purpose of football!
Why do you think Mike Vick was the highest paid player in the NFL? I wasn’t because he could throw the ball for a certain amount of yard or fit the ball in tight places! Not saying that those things aren’t nice to watch, but Vick put points on the Score Board any way possible!
It doesn’t matter what your QB rating is or how many yards you throw for the only thing that matters at the end of the game is who won and who lost! When are people going to understand that?
I don’t care if VY never throws for 250+ yards ever in his Career but if he’s doing all he can to open up the run game and he’s moving the offense down the field then he is doing his job as a QB! If you knew anything about the way Titans play you would see that their game style doesn’t call for a Tom Brady or Drew Brees type of QB! Look at the Successful QBs for this Franchise: Warren Moon, Steve McNair, and Vince Young can be easily if you all would get off his back and let he play ball!
I’m sick and Tired of people thinking that something is wrong with scrambling QB or guys that don’t throw for 3’000 yards in a season the mess isn’t even called for! QBs that have to put up those kind of numbers don’t like having to put up those kind of numbers! All that shows is that their running backs aren’t doing their part!
I miss the old days when people just played to win and football didn’t have all these stupid rules atleast VY is a QB that can put a Linebackers face in the dirt instead of a Tom Brady that needs a roughing the QB rule just to be able to make it through a full season!
by datboybevans on Nov 6, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
preach it.....
preach it preach it. all these pre madonna passing qb’s make me sick, every time peyton gets touched he starts to bitch and moan with the best of them. why? because the qb is the main focus of the defense and they put a hit on you? get out of here with that shit, anybody remember that shot VY took in the giants game not too long ago when it was out of bounds any bitching and moaning there?? no just more of the lets get back on the field attitude so we can win this game. and right on evans, ppl are so focused to how we get the touchdowns, either way its still 6 on the board! i dont care if we won the super bowl 7 to 0 on a rushing td from the qb….its still gonna get us the win right???
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hell Yea!
The main ones talking about Pocket passer this and Pocket passer that are the ones that know nothing about Football! Anyone watch the Vikings and Packers? Well if you did you would see how Rogers had to start scrambling his ass off just to start making plays! Pocketpassing was about to get him put out for the season!
by datboybevans on Nov 6, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
someone who knows football would say that the packers need better pass protection, not that the packers need vince young.
by mattd97 on Nov 7, 2009 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i dont think....
there was any implications that green bay needed VY. its the fact that they have to use their abilities to scramble around to make plays, which is what happened alot last sunday against the jags, protection broke down forcing VY out of the pocket.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 8, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank You for understanding what I wrote!
Mattd97 couldn’t comprehend that!
by datboybevans on Nov 13, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't say they needed VY!
How you going to try and put words in my mouth? I just stated that Rogers scrambling help he make more plays!
by datboybevans on Nov 13, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you said ppl who talk about preferring pocket passers dont know football. what green bay needs is a pocket passer with the athletic ability and cognitive ability to scramble. Not a rb who can throw.
Comprehension skills are not everyone elses weakness. You have stupid arguments, but somehow we still end up with the same conclusion; Vince Young is the right quarterback for this team, and could be a very good one. I mean we agree he was great at UT leading the vols over the gamecocks for the BCS
by mattd97 on Nov 13, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
as you see cutler....
with his jaw dropping performances, passing qb’s are not always the way to go, i bet you chi fans wish cut had the running skills to extend the play and find an open receiver. as opposed to staying in the pocket and trying to force something. and everybody needs to stop with this cant throw bs towards VY, he has proven time and time again he can throw the ball very well, both in college and the NFL. even alex smith (and jay fastly approaching) has just as bad record with INT’s than vince. just b/c the man has great abilities to run the ball if his reads dont develop to take off and MAKE A PLAY doesnt mean he’s a running back that can throw. hes a QB that can run the ball! ppl are reading into the INT stat way too much and its gettin old fast, what do you have to say about cutler? a qb that cant throw to his own team for the most part, and doesnt really get it done with his legs b/c he doesnt have the confidence to try and make a play, should we just stone him and wish he finds his way out of the NFL? does everybody not remember the type of player mcnair was??? NOT your traditional sit in the pocket QB. and that seemed to work pretty damn well during his tenure here.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 13, 2009 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Denver was a 13-3 and a super bowl caliber team...
…the year before Cutler took over. 3 years under Cutler and they could not even make the play-offs. Now he gets a second chance with another superbowl caliber team (Chicago ‘08 SuperBowl)…and now they’re struggling with him. But hey, he has good individual stats. If Cutler was such a great QB he would have done at least half of what Big Ben has done, be the missing link (for a consistently good team) to the superbowl. By the way, Denver hasn’t missed a beat without Cutler.
I can’t believe team sports has come to this; individual stat worship with little value for team success. Basically, fantasy football losers. The same guys who cleaned the jocks and brought out the water in high school and now they pressure their kids to be the super athletes they couldn’t or criticize guys for performances they couldn’t match on the H.S. level.
Don’t get me wrong, I love to see my fav players have outstanding games. BUT not at the expense of a team win or trip to the playoffs. For example, Drew Brees had a great statistical year last year, but N.O. did not even make the playoffs. Is that really MVP material? Check out the stats of the multi-superbowl QBs- Bradshaw, Staubach, and more recently Big Ben (don’t know how to spell his last name :) and Brady- their stats are good, and some years great, but the years they win the superbowl are not always their best stat years, (ask Peyton Manning). John Elway couldn’t even win a superbowl until he had a 2,000 yard rusher in the backfield. Currently, Brees seems to be cooling down statistacally the last couple of games, but N.O. is still winning because they are a better all around team (especially defensively) this year.
I don’t think you go from 6 straight losses & 50+ point blowout to two consecutive wins by luck. Not to mention, this is the 2nd time V. Young has ceased an 0-6 start. The Fact is V. Young is currently 20-11 as a starter, because the TEAM is better when he’s in. He hasn’t even played two full seasons at quaterback (less than 32 starts) and the Jury is already out. I’ll take VYs college and pro team success over Cutler’s individual, team losing stats any day. If you’re going to compare him to another young QB (no pun intended), at least find one that has taken over a consistently losing team and then HELPED (NOT SINGLE-HANDEDLY) turn the team around to playoff contention almost immediately. Another fact, you can’t find one!!!…or at least you will have to peruse the history of the NFL beacuse it is simply rare. Please post your answer when you have found the rookie/young QB that has had similar or better success under the same scenario (losing team) as VY..I guarantee you the answer will take a long time and the list will be very short, if you can even make a list from your research.
Lastly, VY doesn’t even get credit for a lot of things that he does as a QB, e.g. rushing TDs, higher team yardage per play, etc. True, he has to improve the interception to TD ratio, as do most upstart QBs, but he does have double digit rush TDs. Also, if you average out his passing stats, he’s on par with the other QBs on most measures and better on some. He only throws the ball about 15 to 20 times a game, compared to 35 to 40+ for the most others. Those that pass more, run more, or are thrown to more almost always have better total seasonal numbers at all positions. The key to V Young’s development is to get more passing reps, and I guarantee everything (statistically)will fall into place.
by textitan on Nov 9, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i have to admit, i didnt think VY had the touch to throw the fade
but he made a hell of a throw. it does scare the hell out of me when he launches that high trajectory pass, like the one that was nearly picked. as far as all the short stuff, I dont have a problem with it as long as vy, cj and lw are the 3 headed monster running the ball. its the 3rd and 10’s where our recievers dont seem to know where the sticks are and come up just short. this is not a vy issue.
"hey, quit reading these ridiculous words of wisdom and get back to work!"
by stetix01 on Nov 5, 2009 3:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Let’s see him make those type of passes regularly…
… one time ain’t enough. Guys like Manning & Brady make those throws all the time.
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 5, 2009 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Give me the examples of the fades that he's thrown badly
Yeah…we’ll be waiting because you’re not going to come up with anything. Guarantee you that.
by earlers on Nov 6, 2009 7:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
aside from the jags game, I cant remember.
"hey, quit reading these ridiculous words of wisdom and get back to work!"
by stetix01 on Nov 6, 2009 7:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
good ones, that is. his touch hasnt been what I had hoped in the past.
but it was textbook last sunday. peyton or brady couldnt have done it better.
"hey, quit reading these ridiculous words of wisdom and get back to work!"
by stetix01 on Nov 6, 2009 7:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Give me the examples (other than last week) when he actually THREW the fade…
Yeah… we’ll be waiting because you’re not going to come up with anything. Guarantee you that.
See, VY throwing the fade doesn’t happen very often at all. The Titans usually have CJ or LenDale run the football down close to the end zone and if VY is supposed to pass in that situation, he doesn’t usually try to throw the fade. If some other receiver hasn’t gotten himself wide open in the end zone, VY usually tries to run it in himself.
You act as though he throws this pass in every game he plays. I can’t ever remember him ever throwing it before last Sunday. So you know that ain’t very often at all.
Let’s see him do it on a regular basis. Throwing a nice fade once doesn’t turn the guy into Johnny U.
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 6, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
are you not....
ok with VY running it in for a TOUCHDOWN?? doesnt that put us in the lead of the other team has not matched us yet? i think so.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I want the guy to develop into a “real” QB…
… not just one that runs the ball all the time.
I am always happy when the team scores. But VY can’t run the football forever and be successful. At some point he has to develop into a better passer. If teams know he is likely to run the ball himself instead of throwing near the goal line, they will do everything they can to take that away and dare him to throw the ball. He has to show he can do that on a consistent basis.
This is VY’s FOURTH year in the NFL. If a QB hasn’t developed into a good passer by then chances are he never will. Name how many QBs that were not very good passers in their first 3 years in the NFL that turned into good throwers afterwards. Maybe you name 1 or 2 if you try really hard but the fact remains that if a QB doesn’t show he can make all the throws after this amount of time chances are it means he can’t do it.
VY is a “running QB”. He is never going to be a great thrower. This type of QB can have success early in their careers but as they age, they have to be able to pass the ball. Age (and maybe leg injuries) are gonna take their toll on his running ability so he needs to be able to pass the ball better. So far, he ain’t showing he is a great passer…
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 6, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"So far" he's only played two years.
If you didn’t see a huge improvement in his game last game, you weren’t paying attention. He looked comfortable in the pocket. He was clearly going through his reads. Yeah, he checked down a lot, but he also completed more than 80% of his passes and had no turnovers. He had only one lapse in judgment. That’s a good performance for a guy that’s been on the bench for 1.5 seasons.
Name how many QBs that were not very good passers in their first 3 years in the NFL that turned into good throwers afterwards. Maybe you name 1 or 2 if you try really hard but the fact remains that if a QB doesn’t show he can make all the throws after this amount of time chances are it means he can’t do it.
Steve Young – Who I should remind you rode the bench for 4 years behind Joe Montana. That was after two years in Tampa bay.
John Elway
Warren Moon
Steve McNair
Troy Aikman
Brett Favre
I could really go on and on. It’s more the exception than the rule that a quarterback really hits their stride by the third year. Generally it takes until the fourth year to really “get it”.
by SuperHorn on Nov 6, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
keep it....
coming!
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And why didn’t he play that “3rd year”?
Because he got hurt, quit on the team, and was replaced. He made a mess out of that whole situation. Instead of dealing with the injury and the boos and the benching, he outed and considered retirement, not to mention that national embarrassment of having the nation wondering for a day whether he was gonna kill himself. That whole fiasco last season was the topper for me. He had all last season ’’off’’ to watch and learn from the sidelines. But it seems everytime he was interviewed, he sounded like a guy who didn’t want to be a pro QB anymore… certainly not one for the Titans. How come nobody else here remembers that whole mess from last season? I do. He had some adversity and he folded up like an old beer bottle. Not exactly what you are looking for from the franchise QB. That’s the main reason the coaching staff stopped believing in him. Yeah, I know they wanted Leinhart instead but after his rookie season, they were behind him then. It was only after that poor showing his 2nd season and then that forgettable 3rd season that they decided to try and make do with Collins instead. Had it not been for that 3rd season fiasco of his, Fisher probably would have pulled Collins outta there a lot sooner than he did… and without Bud Adams making him do so. But you can’t really blame Fish for not trusting the guy anymore after what VY pulled doing his 3rd season. He lost me then, too…
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 6, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
funny....
how when your proven wrong about a point, you want to find another to try and be right on, why cant you come back to what superhorn is saying to answer your questions???? actually what happened, was VY got hurt and they didnt want to bring him back too early so it wouldnt get reaggravated, and then we start to go on a run b/c of our great defense, and nobody wants to mess up a good thing going. and i was up for it too, gives VY time to see how the game is played (which he never got in his first couple of years) and learn from the sidelines. yes he had trouble with adversity, but i wanna see somebody that had to handle the adversity he had to deal with growing up. like i said i wont make a charity case for him, but let it be know that one could be made. but hes gone through that and now its time for him to push forward, and i can tell you one thing, that is a changed man we saw out there this past sunday, and if you dont see that, you are blind as a bat my friend. all aspect of his game looked better.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ive preached this multiple times!
people dont get it!
by datboybevans on Nov 6, 2009 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say anything about that.
You made a comment that wasn’t based on fact, and then asked for examples to dispute it. I did.
It’s kind of a recurring theme here. You won’t address the 125 yards passing above in the thread, because you’re clearly wrong. And, it’s evident you’re wrong here as well.
Instead of admitting you’re wrong, you continue to bring up other things.
As for last year, if you choose to live in the past, that’s your prerogative. You’re entitled to that. You don’t have to like the guy. I don’t care.
What I do care about is you coming on here and vomiting your mindless drivel all over the page without any regard to fact. Vince played well last game. He has thrown a fade recently. And, historically many quarterbacks take 4 years to develop.
by SuperHorn on Nov 6, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like he isn't human...
And like you have never mad a mistake in your life!
by datboybevans on Nov 6, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I ain’t getting paid millions of dollars…
,,, and carrying the hopes of untold numbers of Titan fans.
If I was and I f**ked up, I know I’d have handled it a helluva lot better than that.
VY needs to develop a thicker skin. If he can’t handle the boos or the tough losses, then he won’t ever truly be successful.
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 6, 2009 8:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but.....
you’ll never be in the position VY has/is been in, so dont try and compare yourself to that unless youve actually gone through it. and how did he handle it bad, its not like he called the cops himself and said hey i got a gun and im not home, no….his mom did. and if your mom cares about you, you would understand this, that’s why the cops went looking for him. the man cant go get a a breathe of air to go and try and gather himself of what happened???? and just b/c he had two forms of protection, that doesnt mean anything. something that is just overblown and will always haunt him b/c some idiotic ppl tend to read too much into the media and use it as their form of fact. if the man couldnt handle it he wouldnt have been the starting qb in this past sundays game. just because your afraid hes gonna rise above what you and alot of other ppl think of him and have branded him. hope you have a big appetite.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i can a very good....
one that should be well known for you, which is why i question this whole argument, air mcnair. wasnt the greatest passer coming out of college and it didnt happen over night, it took some time. and please with this 4th year bs, yeah 4th year of his contract, but not playing. actually go look at how many games the guy has played and see if that translated into 4 years playing, open your eyes bro. yeah he cant run forever, but it will be a loooong time before those skills start to diminish, and he is very very good at it. you say he is a poor mans vick, i think VY is better than vick. yeah his footwork was out of this world, but it was to get around pass rushers in the backfield, VY is ALWAYS looking to take it up field for plus yardage, and he is a better passer than ppl want to give him credit for, or see. what else you got?
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
A QB is a guy that called the plays and runs the offense! No is no definition that says a QB has to just throw the ball a lot! QB just runs the offense and does what he can to move the offense down the field! You people are crazy!
And yea it’s VYs Fourth year in his contract but he’s only plays two of these years and he was winning those two year and this year really hasn’t kicked off for him yet! Use the facts instead of trying to make things look the way you want them to!
by datboybevans on Nov 6, 2009 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heck, I don't care.....
how he gets it there, as long as he DOES!! I don’t care how many times he throws or how many yds each pass goes or what his completion percentage is or any of that stuff. Vince is a winner…proved it as a Longhorn…and has proved it as a Titan (when he’s been given the chance). I’m more concerned with his mental state (not Grif’s) than anything else. But if last Sunday was any indication, looks like we’ve got the “old” Vince Young back…and can I just say “Halelujah”.
by titansfan4ever on Nov 6, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't even care....
if he runs from the cops….or if he eats a hot dog on the sidelines…or if he shoots himself in a night club….or if a hotel employee accuses him of rape…or if he wears socks with his sandals…or if he pours popcorn all over his face after a touchdown…or if he changes his name to uno-zero…(I’m sorry guys, I kinda went off a bit)……JUST WIN, BABY!!!!
by titansfan4ever on Nov 6, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and VY....
will play his heart out to that for you, despite what ppl took from his little episode last year, his heart, passion, love for the game should never be questioned. VY was the leader on the field sunday that we have been looking for, something that we had never got from KC, our passing qb.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
but disagree about McNair…he broke all kinds of passing records in college….that’s why they called him “Air” McNair.
by titansfan4ever on Nov 6, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
VY....
was a pretty damn good passer in college, its just that records are harder to break for the longhorns than they are at alcorn state. would you say.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For sure...
just wanted to give McNair his props.
by titansfan4ever on Nov 6, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that is someting.....
i will never let you stop from doing. #9 is gonna be in my heart FOREVER.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not get crazy here kg
I know I said I wouldn’t respond to you anymore
And I am pulling for Young to succeed
But McNair accounted for almost twice as many total yards and touchdowns than Young in college. McNair obviously had many many more starts than Young, so let’s not try to compare college careers based on passing records. Young obviously had an excellent college career, but I don’t think he was anywhere close to breaking Longhorn records for passing.
Official MCM Hater!
Retire #9!
by gramsey712 on Nov 7, 2009 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nice....!!
Guy has never had a problem throwing the fade.
by earlers on Nov 6, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah u won't be waiting for long...
http://www.nfl.com/videos/tennessee-titans/09000d5d811c9713/Can-t-Miss-Young-s-redemption
Now I’ll sit here and wait for more of your lame ass excuses. You’re so lame. Vince has never had a problem with fades. However, you wouldn’t know it because all you do is sit on here and rag on every thing he does.
Now go find me a fade throw that he has thrown badly. I’ll be waiting lamester!
by earlers on Nov 6, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nice....
how your using some of the best qb’s in the league to make you sound like your making good points. that’s like saying i want a running back that runs like barry sanders, yeah NO SHIT!
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 6, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
.
.
.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20091106/COLUMNIST0202/911060362/1027/SPORTS01
.
.
.
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 6, 2009 7:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for people cooling it after Young's first performance
I’m very happy for the guy that he put together a solid outing to help Tennessee win, but it is just one game. As I have said in a recent comment, I expect the Titans to go no better than 6-10 and for Young to have his struggles, throwing around 10 interceptions. However, if people are going to tell others to not judge too much off of one game, I seem to remember almost an entire community retroactively labeling Young a failure after one game against Jacksonville last year. It goes both ways.
by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 6, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Are we really still doing this?
Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.
by Jimmy on Nov 6, 2009 3:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
sorry jimmy. it wasnt my intention.
had hoped it would be a discussion about the distinction between losing confidence in VY vs. hoping he gets hit by a train. But it only poured gas on the fire. my bad.
"hey, quit reading these ridiculous words of wisdom and get back to work!"
by stetix01 on Nov 6, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
VY has had 3 seasons to prove himself…
… now he has 9 games left in his 4th season. If he improves into a real “complete” NFL QB and proves me wrong about him, I’ll happily eat my words. You guys think I’m just looking to hate on him. That’s not true. I just want the team to be successful. I also want the team’s QB to be as at being a passer as the RBs on the team are at running. Right now, VY is not a “complete” QB. He is a talented runner who throws the ball.
If he doesn’t start proving he can be a "complete’’ QB then I want them to draft someone else when they have the chance…
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 6, 2009 4:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you're "looking to hate on him".
We’ve gone 1.5 years without any data on the guy short of meaningless games and preseason. He comes back and does everything we would want of him and more, completing more than 80% of his passes and not turning it over. Yet, somehow you think a 4th year QB should be doing more than that on only 18 attempts.
There is no way you or anyone could possibly know if Vince is a “complete QB”. We need more data. Or maybe you don’t, since from the looks of the comments above you judge everything you see subjectively with complete disregard for facts.
None of this is to say that I think Vince is a surefire, NFL ready quarterback. I don’t know. I need to see more. But, I will say that anyone who thought that last weekend wasn’t a step in the right direction is an idiot.
by SuperHorn on Nov 6, 2009 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Vince Young...
Hasn’t even PLAYED a FULL 2 seasons yet! So please get off of the “Years he done played Topic!” Hell Ya’ll just running out of fire power so yall coming up with any little bs Possible to talk about!
by datboybevans on Nov 6, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was still part of the team for those 3 seasons.
He was still going to meetings, still attending practices (when healthy) and still (supposedly) getting himself ready to play ball in case they needed him to play.
A lot of football happens BEFORE and AFTER the actual games. He had those opportunities to work on his game.
I get the feeling some here think I want VY to fail. That’s insane. If he succeeds then the team hasn’t wasted another high draft choice (like they did on Pacman) and they don’t have use another high draft choice on another QB and start over again.
VY is gonna cost this team a boatload of money if he remains on the roster next season. He has got to show he finally “gets it” and has become a NFL starting QB “worth” that 14 million dollars they are supposed to give him. The reason he has that big roster bonus (4.2 million, I think) and that 14 million for next season is because it was assumed back when they signed him he would be one of the best QBs in the NFL. His passing stats say he isn’t. Nobody in the NFL is going to trade a high draft choice to get this guy… not after the poor 2nd year and that 3rd year fiasco.
Like I said before, he has 9 games to prove me wrong and show the team he is the “man”. If he does, fantastic. I will happily admit I was wrong… hell, I’ll enjoy being wrong. But I’m not buying the hype anymore. I want to see him do it and do it often, not just once in a while. No more talk, no more “look at his physical talents”, I want to see positive results and growth as an NFL passer…
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 6, 2009 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, just some friendly advice...
I’ve been reading all this, but I just gotta tell ya steeler-hater … you should give it up, lol. There’s plenty of people on this site who feel like you do, and those people know what you’re saying, but I’m guessing they haven’t stepped in to say anything because they’re sick of this argument. It’s true though, he has 9 games in which to prove he’s made huge improvements and can be consistent in his game, or something else will be done.
by J3G77 on Nov 7, 2009 8:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, i just want to correct a point that lots of vy supporters seem to bring up
I haven’t even checked this thread until now because I assumed I will have read all this somewhere in another thread at some point.
But everyone claiming VY to have been an awesome college passer:
a. he was throwing to future NFL receivers and TEs
b. if you go back and look, all of said receivers are open as the Red Sea, doubly so by NFL standards
c. I honestly can remember one single NFL quality throw, which was the bomb TD to Limas Sweed against OSU. I will give him that one.
Being a Texas Ex, I love VY as much as the next Longhorn, but let’s not call him something he isn’t, and that is an NFL passer.
This is not to say he couldn’t become useful to the team in some other capacity. In fact, his scrambling ability creates enormous opportunity but as soon as teams start expecting this it takes away his best ability. Someone in the beginning of the thread said this and a lot of people immediately jumped on him as irrational or a VY hater. Well, inevitably our opponents WILL begin to stack the box, and I hate to say it but he just doesn’t have the accuracy down the field.
I have watched every game he has played for 6 years now and am convinced that he needs to be in a zone read or at least a split back set to be effective. However, since that’s about more likely than your head coach wearing another team’s jersey (.. wait) I hope he proves me wrong after the better part of a decade about his passing ability.
by arilou on Nov 6, 2009 6:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly…
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
by steeler-hater on Nov 6, 2009 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry...
But if you only remember one NFL quality throw from VY in college, you need to go rewatch all of his games.
VY struggled in passing his early years, but his jump his RS junior year was impressive; in fact, he led the NCAA in passing efficiency up until the bowl season, because although he passed well against USC, his ypa wasn’t as high and he didn’t throw any TDs that game (he finished 3rd). Vince Young showed much better touch and accuracy on throws than people thought he could, and that was actually probably the single biggest development in his high grade for the NFL draft. His last season, he completed over 65% of his passes for over 3,000 yards, with 26 TDs to 10 Int. Was he as good a college thrower as Colt has become? No. But as you can see, he was darn effective his last year.
Also, your points don’t really mean much:
a. A lot of QB’s do. Does that mean they can’t play at the next level just because they play on a talented team?
b. No, they weren’t. Check out the fade route to Ramonce Taylor against OU.
c. Addressed above.
I would agree that using VY in the zone-read is a great idea. To say that he NEEDS this offense is going too far; he’s 19-11 as a starter and had a much better rookie year than anyone thought he would (as well as had a good game last week). I too am a Texas Ex and not only have I watched every Longhorn game the past several years, I sometimes rewatch them and try to analyze them. I have to say your general statements on Young aren’t accurate, at least when they apply to college.
by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 7, 2009 2:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so your argument is that he beat low expectations
yes, he seems to have that fade route down somewhat. but if you noticed, nfl cornerbacks don’t always miss their jam after lining up a yard off the ball, get beat cleanly, and then not contest the catch. great pass though.
his good w-l record contains lots of games where the record in field goals was set, red zone percentage was just abysmal, etc.. to rehash an earlier argument, we had an awesome defense, remember that? i remembering wishing we had a consistent offense to match.
however, you are right. he does not NEED a zone read. but games would be much more fun to watch if he weren’t consistently asked to be something he’s not.
by arilou on Nov 7, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's not the argument
The argument is that your assessment of VY as a college passer is simply wrong. You took my example (many more could be given) and simply tried to dismiss it with some rationale that “NFL corners don’t always miss their jams.” Neither do college players. And NFL players don’t always make their jams either. After all, we could even dismiss the only memory you had by saying “NFL safeties aren’t always a split second late on the ball.” As you can see, that doesn’t constitute much of an argument.
His good win-loss record also consists of games where he played well, brought them back in the clutch, and even several good throws. Also, there are some games where he played well and the Titans lost, like against Denver in the MNF game. Furthermore, in 2006, Vince a) positively affected the run game and b) played with a defense ranked in the bottom of the NFL.
by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 7, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i never contested that he positively affects the run game
i even said that is his strength..
“even” several good throws.
just not consistent enough to be effective.
by arilou on Nov 7, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
anyways, i'm done with this thread
just wanted to give my insight into VY.
you seem to want to pull me into other arguments but i will not be sucked in!!!
by arilou on Nov 7, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're not getting sucked in
You brought in yourself. You tried to criticize VY’s passing in college even though it is clear you’re not familiar enough with the relevant data to speak.
by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 7, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i brought up specific concerns involving his apparently godlike college passing game and possible remedies
You brought up lots of irrelevant arguments like his effect on the running game and his NFL W-L record. I don’t know what to say, it’s clear you are determined to defend him regardless. Have some objectivity, man.
I guess we really did not watch the same games. I just don’t see it. Bottom line: do you honestly consider VY a consistent down the field passer?
by arilou on Nov 7, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My arguments were not irrelevant
You said Vince Young “needs” the zone-read. I agree that it is smart to use him in that way (I’ve written on this before), but I brought up his W-L record to show you that he does not “need” it…. which is a point that you conceded.
I’ve criticized Young for several things. Your criticisms, however, were just misinformed. The problem is not my objectivity but your familiarity with Young and his college career.
As I said somewhere above, I think Vince’s “downfield” passing is not his main problem. I actually think he showed in college that he’s more than capable of delivering accurate deep balls. His accuracy problems are more about consistently making the short to intermediate throws. There have been many times in the past, for instance, where he’s completed a pass, but since it was a poor pass, it doesn’t give his WR a chance to run after the catch. The throws through windows under 25 yards and quick throws for precise short yards are where I think he struggles the most, not when he throws 40 yard bombs.
by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 7, 2009 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm?
his good w-l record contains lots of games where the record in field goals was set
I assume you’re talking about the 8 FGs Rob Bironas made against Houston in 2007. Kerry Collins was playing quarterback.
by SuperHorn on Nov 7, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oops, my mistake
In response to the W-L above, yes, i do concede that he does in fact have an 18-11 record. KFC went 10 games in a row without a loss. Amazing quarterbacking!
by arilou on Nov 7, 2009 10:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
more like an amazing.....
DEFENSE. for KC, not so much for when VY was under center in the past.
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 8, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, just for fun
i youtubed “vince young highlights” and cataloged the first result that came up. 9 minutes long, here is the play breakdown:
43 plays
pass plays: 15 (35%)
fade route down the field (defender did his best to look scary but never touched receiver)
threaded the needle in the end zone
deep out end zone
25yd down middle, receiver fell down
pass against osu
3 long bombs down the middle
6 wideeeeeeeeeee open
and a dump off
23 designed qb keepers (53%) includes the USC game winner that still brings tears to my eyes
3 scrambles (7%)
some clips of him juking the sh*t out of people (2.3%)
1 great tackle on an INT (2.3%)
total ground plays: 28 (65%)
watching these clips again, it really reminds me how ridiculous his consistent 40 yard runs were. if you are an opposing safety in NCAA, you are terrified of this and play paranoid of a qb run..
by arilou on Nov 7, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is a poor, poor way to go about judging his passing
His youtube highlights? Of course his youtube highlights are going to focus on his impressive runs; they’re highlights! I told you that you needed to rewatch games, not make generalizations based on a 9 minute highlight for a 32 game starting career.
Don’t get me wrong; I love that highlight reel, but it’s a small, small sample. I can even think of some nice runs by VY that didn’t make that reel, much less passes.
by TheElusiveShadow on Nov 7, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Texas-Ex my ass
You lie.
You ain't hurt.
by Peter Bean on Nov 8, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the USC game winner that still brings tears to my eyes......
i hope those are tears of joy, or else i have to ask you what your definition of texas ex is? oh and your comment about being an NCAA safety, the same can be told for NFL safeties, as long as VY is still in the equation. and you youtubed hightlights???? nice way to shoot yourself in the foot there (something you probably should have kept to yourself).
"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."
by kg_2005 on Nov 8, 2009 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m right there with you,in the beginning he struggled (throwing to RB and TE)but when he understood the plays of the WR’s he was lights out.
by cpabis on Nov 11, 2009 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m right there with you,in the beginning he struggled (throwing to RB and TE)but when he understood the plays of the WR’s he was lights out.
by cpabis on Nov 11, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i have simply just lost confidence in vy
i would love for him to succede for the sake of our team tho. i hope he does well, i really do, but i just don’t see him being “our” guy for the future.
by TitansFanForever on Nov 6, 2009 9:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
VINCE IS 2-0 THIS YEAR!!!
KERRY IS 0-6 THIS YEAR…
by CJ28 on Nov 8, 2009 9:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Some VY history
The label put on VY going into the draft was that he was a project that had a huge upside if he reached his ceiling, which many experts felt was almost limitless. You have a guy that is just a freakish athlete, that seems to have the tools to be able to become a force at the position.
I think the instant success he had the first 2 years was not good for him. I love VY. He’s the man in my book, if he ended up a bust I’d still love him. Greatest QB in Texas history, brought the Horns a national title and had a huge part in changing the direction of the program and getting Mack and Greg Davis to put more trust in their players/play-makers.
HOWEVER, I think the instant success got to his head a little bit and threw off his work ethic. I don’t think he worked as hard as he should have following the 10-6 playoff season. I think he put in work, no doubt, but I definitely think he could have put in much, much more work. I think he got a little heavy which took away from his quickness/speed/agility, and limited his running ability, and don’t tell me it was muscle b/c I saw him on UT’s campus at the gym(pick up game) and he had mostly definitely gained some non-muscle weight. He does look like he’s lost some weight though and is more back to his old self.
I think this past off-season he really got the message that he can’t just do the minimum and rely on that plus his natural ability/athleticism to become the elite QB he wants to be. He’s put in a lot of work and he needs to continue to put in the work b/c he’s nowhere near a finished product. Key to the rest of the season is to just continue to manage the game and do whats in the gameplan. One thing I worry about @Houston in two weeks is him wanting to take over the game in his home-town and put on a show.
In the off-season he needs to live at the practice facility. Hermdienger needs to get sick of VY calling him. He’s got a lot of work he needs to do, footwork, mechanics, film study, etc. Hopefully he’s gotten the message that he can’t just rely on athletic ability to dominate the game as he did in HS and college.
The Titans need to do their part and get some weapons other than CJ around him. Johnson is an amazing RB and if he stays healthy he is going to be considered a great one, BUT, he needs a true #1 WR if they want him to eventually take the next step.
by ThunderHorn on Nov 9, 2009 3:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hello MCM!
1. Troll me once, shame on you. Troll me twice, shame on me.
by Kool Hand on Nov 9, 2009 11:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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