Fire Jeff Fisher? That's absurd. - Music City Miracles

-1

Sorry, T-Rac, but I’ve been watching Fisher since he took over for Jack Pardee. It’s time to move on, says I.

He’s married to the game manager QB idea, and that is not a formula for a Super Bowl Title – nor will it be in the near future. The NFL is even predicating its rule-making based on the idea that QBs are marquis, and that the game is and should be disproportionately centered around the success of that position. Fisher has also demonstrated an unwillingness to adapt, choosing to go down with the ship instead of shuffling the crew – this is something he could have learned doesn’t end well by having a talk with a guy like Dick Vermeil, who changed his entire approach and even practice methods rather than defiantly stay the course, assured of his football omniscience. These, however, are observational criticisms.

I have cited other statistical data several times: the fact that we’re looking at a fourth .500 or worse season in the last six years (three of which – depending on this year – could be absolutely atrocious seasons of 5 wins or less). Only four division titles in his entire 15 -years tenure (the length of the tenure nullifies any idea of Fisher being the most consistent victim of circumstance in NFL history), the fact that we haven’t won a playoff game in what will be seven years, and haven’t won so much as a Conference Championship, much less a Super Bowl, in what will be more than a decade.

Then there’s the question: If you were looking to hire a coach, and knew from providicial knowledge that he would not win a Super Bowl in the next fifteen years, would you sign him to a 16 or 17 year contract? I wouldn’t. And after all this time, I simply cannot accept the apologetic argument which boils down to: Jeff Fisher is just the most unfortunate and constant victim of circumstance we’re ever seen. There’s been too much time for me to accept this justification anymore.

I realize that fans can disagree, even passionately so. But to the Fisher apologists, I ask again: At what point do you finally say, “let’s give someone else a shot at this?” Is there EVEN such a point for his defenders?

Let’s move on. It’s time.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Oct 7, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Who do you get to replace him?

And don’t give me Holmgren. His career winning % is .592 to Fisher’s .547.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.

by Jimmy on Oct 7, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fulmer!!

I heard he’s available. ;-)

Neyland Stadium: Home of the biggest bust in quarterbacking history.
I got bored and made a blog!! SCS

by VolBrian on Oct 7, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay,

Let me be clear:

I would rather have Fisher for another year than ANY college coach. No more college-to-pro experiments; they seldom go well…….

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Oct 7, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just a joke....

But, seriously, as a casual Titans fan…How much of these struggles are a result of the loss of Jim Schwartz?

Neyland Stadium: Home of the biggest bust in quarterbacking history.
I got bored and made a blog!! SCS

by VolBrian on Oct 7, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not as much as you think.

Cecil has had problems, but he’s really just playing the same defense – and these guys aren’t new to the system.

I just think we got a false impression over the first ten games of last year of how good the team REALLY was. I think they were playing above themselves a bit, even on defense. The league caught-on toward the end of the year, and seems to have us figured-out now.

Perhpas we need more talent upgrades that we’re willing to admit – who knows?

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Oct 7, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Holmgren is just one example.

But to that point, you do realize that .592 to .547 is a rather big difference over such a big time frame? Or can I compare Fisher unfavorably to someone with a .502 record?

But for that matter, I think there are options available, though the mention of any name immediately brings polarized views.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Oct 7, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Give me other names

Also, as hal said above, counting the 2 blow up years against Fisher very much adversely affects his %

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.

by Jimmy on Oct 7, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again, this only brings polarizing side arguments....

……but I think that there are several options who could have success with this franchise given 16 seasons to do so.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Oct 7, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You lost me there

If there were “several options” or NFL coaches who could be successful with any franchise for 16 seasons, they would be there right now or well on their way.

It’s not like Jeff Fisher has continually failed season in and season out and keeps getting inexplicable chances each year by ownership. He’s one of the best NFL coaches out there and you’ll be very hard pressed to find someone of that caliber.

Again, I’m just a casual Titans fan in that I couldn’t hold my own in an in depth argument over detailed aspects of things, but I do know enough to realize the magnitude of what Fisher has accomplished with the franchise. I really don’t care if Fisher retires after this season if they can find someone who will be as or more successful then he was, but that’s the problem. There are no obvious choices or you would have put them out there by now.

Neyland Stadium: Home of the biggest bust in quarterbacking history.
I got bored and made a blog!! SCS

by VolBrian on Oct 7, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought I had.

However, every good coach was once a coordinator – so don’t rule that out, either.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Oct 7, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

gruden.

by vancouverTITAN on Oct 7, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wrong

the idea that he “is married to the game manager” is one of the dumbest things you have ever said. he did it last year and it worked. it’s not coach fisher’s fault that the “playmaker” franchise qb that bud drafted can’t play. but even still, he has gone with that philosophy exactly twice to begin the season. out of 15 full seasons. twice. 2 times. out of a possible 15. i thought you said you had been watching longer than 2 years.

the 2 bad seasons (04-05) had nothing to do with fisher. period. he had a roster full of 3rd teamers because floyd reese screwed us (remember that time he got fired?). anyone who knows anything about what went on when we had to cut 7 starters on the same day would never say something that stupid. again, thought you were a long time follower.

better stats:

in the last decade 2 teams have more playoff appearances: colts and eagles. let that sink in.

fisher coached 4 teams that were as good as any in the league over that time period: 1999, 2000, 2003, 2008. coaches don’t step on the field. if you to blame him for the turnovers and missed kicks that sank us the 2 years that the ratbirds took us out in the first round, (when we thoroughly outplayed them) go ahead but that’s just stupid. in order to win a championship, a perfect storm has to come together and only one part of that is the head coach. that’s just basic football 101. coaches are not super bowl fairies. even belichick needed scott pioli (the greatest gm of the era) and a lot of really good luck to get what he has. if 40% of the time you have legitimate super bowl caliber teams, that’s damn good in today’s NFL.

number of times a jeff fisher team hasn’t lived up to expectations: 1, and it just so happens to be this year, so people with no perspective, such as yourself, are screaming bloody murder after 4 games. and before you talk about the 04-06 rebuilding stretch and say something stupid about how it was fisher’s fault, i already covered it, and i’m saying again: FLOYD EFFING REESE.

so when is it time for him to go? when he really, actually screws up more than once every 15 years.

The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.

by hal41605 on Oct 7, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Floyd Reese screwed us?

I simply cannot understand putting that sentiment in the same breath as one defending Fisher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Reese

Reese was the reason we went from Chandler to McNair, instead of Chandler for several more years, followed by O’Donnell. He brought the key elements in for those successful years. Three of the teams you cite above were his handywork.

And again, we’re back to the idea that Jeff Fisher is simply the greatest victim of circumstance we’ve ever seen the NFL employ. I’m not buying it – not anymore. There’s been too much time now; and I refuse to believe he had nothing to do with the 04-06 problems. This is like political speak now: trying to credit every success to your guy while passing off every failure as unavoidable, or someone else’s fault. He gets the credit AND the blame, not just the credit.

P.S. Jack Pardee had four playoff berths in five years – that didn’t make him a great coach.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Oct 7, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

floyd was great at talent

but he back-loaded contracts like crazy and it led to a salary cap-pocalypse. this is not debatable. someone who has been following the titans longer than 2 years back me up here.

The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.

by hal41605 on Oct 7, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Teams do that...

…..when trying to hold on to key components of a team that made it that far. Floyd wasn’t the first, and I doubt even Jeff Fisher would have called for the dismantling any earlier than it eventually happened.

All I’m saying is: credit AND blame.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Oct 7, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Teams do that... when trying to hold on to key components"

Plenty of teams found ways to do it without going to the extremes we had to go through… who else cut so many key players at one time purely for salary cap reasons?

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager.

by August West on Oct 8, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

floyd wrote the contracts, not fisher.

sorry, facts are facts.

The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.

by hal41605 on Oct 8, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with T-Rac and Hal on this one

While I have been surprised and disappointed by some of Fisher’s decisions this year, those flaws are not even close to being reasons for canning him. Agree: that would be absurd.

by JimR on Oct 7, 2009 6:14 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

I agree

100 %

by danomite on Oct 7, 2009 7:08 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

count me in too

"hey, quit reading these ridiculous words of wisdom and get back to work!"

by stetix01 on Oct 7, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

me three

by bullrider73 on Oct 8, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fisher has taken this team as far as he can.

I’d like to see the team move in a new direction. People act as though Fisher has accomplished something here. The Titans haven’t won a playoff game since January of 2004!

What other coach in the league still has his job w/o a playoff win in the last 5 years?

by ctex80 on Oct 7, 2009 7:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey!

You’re ruining my solo act here, ctex80!

LOL

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Oct 7, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you should have just called each other up :)

"hey, quit reading these ridiculous words of wisdom and get back to work!"

by stetix01 on Oct 7, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only question I have is:

On what basis are you calling him a top 10 coach? You gave no way to judge that. On what criteria?

I still support keeping Fish though

RIP Steve McNair (1973 - 2009) Retire #9!
Member of the Committee to Keep Keith Bulluck.
Eric Berry for Heisman!!

by Pride of the Southland on Oct 7, 2009 9:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hal pretty much summed it up

Can you name 10 better coaches in the NFL right now? 10 legitimate, I would get rid of Fisher for him immediately, better coaches? I definitely can’t. 3 possibly, and it’d be a long debate.

One issue brought up in the comments of the post itself that was similar here was “How come he can’t string more than a couple of seasons in a row? Why not 4 winning seasons in a row?”

In the NFL currently, 2 coaches have strung together 4 winning seasons: Bill Belichick and Andy Reid. Before the retirements of Holmgren, Dungy, and Cowher there were 5 in the NFL, and I may be wrong. Cowher and Holmgren might not have done 4, although I suspect they have. So, I think it’s pretty safe to say top 10 for Fisher.

T-Rac's Posse - T-Rac is one boss raccoon.
My personal Tribute to Air McNair

by T--Rac's Posse on Oct 7, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Belichick

easily cheated his way to 3 of the 4

Neyland Stadium: Home of the biggest bust in quarterbacking history.
I got bored and made a blog!! SCS

by VolBrian on Oct 8, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

by SuperHorn on Oct 8, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's only cheating if you get caught.

Official MCM Hater!

Retire #9!

by gramsey712 on Oct 8, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look at these guys

Jeff Fisher-Titans
Jim Harbaugh-Ravens
Bill Belichick-Pats
Ken Whisenhunt-Cards
Mike Smith-Falcons
Dick Jauron-Bills
Mike Smith-Panthers
Lovie Smith-Bears
Marvin Lewis-Bengals
Eric Mangini-Browns
Wade Phillips-Cowboys
Josh McDaniels-Broncos
Mike McCarthy-Green Bay
Jim Schwartz-Lions
Gary Kubiak-Texans
Jim Caldwell-Colts
Jack Del Rio-Jags
Todd Haley-Cheifs
Tony Sporano-Miami
Brad Childress-Vikings
Sean Peyton-Saints
Tom Coughlin-Giants
Rex Ryan-Jets
Tom Cable-Raiders
Andy Reid-Eagles
Mike Tomlin-Steelers
Norv Turner-Chargers
Mike Singletary-49ers
Jim Mora-Seahawks
Raheem Morris-Bucs
Steve Spagnuolo-Rams
Jim Zorn-Skins

Name one coach who has done more with less like Fisher and (most of the time given us atleast a descent team to root for) Im sorry I will take the Fisher over any of these losers or FA coaches any day..,He will get us there and to quote Jeff himself…He gives us the best chance to win!

by danomite on Oct 8, 2009 12:08 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

That’s an impressive mobile post right there

Neyland Stadium: Home of the biggest bust in quarterbacking history.
I got bored and made a blog!! SCS

by VolBrian on Oct 8, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probaby a copy-and-paste. :-)

by JimR on Oct 8, 2009 7:55 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

I couldn’t find a site on my iPhone to copy paste all that crap so I just had to go back and forth between here and wiki and type it all out…it was brutal but I was bored…I thought about giving up several times but after I got half way throughI decided to press on…my thumbs hurt.

by danomite on Oct 8, 2009 11:05 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

OK. Then that is impressive!

How long did it take?

by JimR on Oct 8, 2009 8:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with ctex80. Don’t you want more than a so-so season? A descent team to root for? Sounds like we are just settling for anything we get. 5-11. We’ll get em next year. I want to actually win something. This is a team with some good young talent that someone can add more pieces to. I mean we will get a top 10 pick in the up coming draft.

by jharr87 on Oct 8, 2009 5:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If the Titans had won that Super Bowl

Would this still be discussed right now?

Neyland Stadium: Home of the biggest bust in quarterbacking history.
I got bored and made a blog!! SCS

by VolBrian on Oct 8, 2009 7:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Here we go again...

Alright, people, let’s look at this in terms of how many teams have had success by changing coaches every time they have a couple of rough seasons…

Hrm…

well, there was…. no….

Oh! How about…. no….

Can’t think of any. On the other hand, the Steelers got a Super Bowl after, what, 13, 14 years under one coach? And that had to be gfit-wrapped by the officials… then that coach retired and the turned it over to his understudy who won a Super Bowl a few years later RUNNING THE SAME SYSTEM with the same starting QB and several other key players.

Tampa Bay had Dungy for years, then decided they needed a different coach to push them over the top. Yes, they got their Super Bowl with Chucky… then went down hill and haven’t been a legitimate contender since. Meanwhile, Dungy won how many Super Bowls when coupled with a legitimate Franchise QB in Indy?

Bellichik… hrm… again, got paired with a legitimate Franchise QB and won multiple Super Bowls…

The Key ingredients in all of these seem to be A: Good Coach given a chance to stick around for awhile, B: a true franchise QB (Which Vince Young may end up being, but he’s not right now), and C: A good deal of good luck and good timing.

Now how about some of you clamoring for a coaching change go talk to fans in Cleveland, Detroit, etc etc etc and ask them if they’d rather have a new coach and an immediate Super Bowl win followed by years of suckitude, or have the same coach and years of good or respectable records with at least a chance at a Super Bowl title several times during that span.

I’m thinking they’d go for the years of good or at least respectable results.

by Antoniemey on Oct 8, 2009 7:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

A-freaking-MEN! Well said..

by J3G77 on Oct 8, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

uh

Tampa Bay had Dungy for years, then decided they needed a different coach to push them over the top. Yes, they got their Super Bowl with Chucky… then went down hill and haven’t been a legitimate contender since. Meanwhile, Dungy won how many Super Bowls when coupled with a legitimate Franchise QB in Indy?

one.

So 1 > 1?

Don’t let facts get in the way of your argument.

Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.

by texanphil on Oct 8, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take a mulligan

on that statement. :) The rest of it stands, though.

by Antoniemey on Oct 8, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also...

Chucky was helped by the fact that he ended up facing his old team in the Super Bowl.

by Antoniemey on Oct 8, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

np

there’s no denying the intent of your comparison. Dungy > Gruden.

Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.

by texanphil on Oct 8, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who Knows

Fisher should definately finish out the season without any worry of losing his coaching spot (which he might already have but who knows). This way he won’t be trying to change all sorts of things up throughout the season. Keep trying his system and making small adjustments. If we get at least 8 loses- im guessing we might- then look for a change. Change can be good or bad, it is like tossing a quarter. We could bring in a huge guy and win a super bowl in 2 or 3 years, or have 6 “rebuilding” seasons and not get a superbowl appearance under the new changes. Either way, I think for sure if we dont get to the playoffs in the next 2-3 years we should look for a big change in management. Fisher has been good to the Titans- some would say- but I think it is time to move on. I have no idea who to take, but hopefully we’ll get a new head coach within the next 4 years.
About Kerry Collins and VY, we all know Fisher is not the type of guy to run the wildcat or even put in a guy like VY to run around and throw balls up. I like VY to a degree and hope he gets a chance to start this year or at least see good playing time. He has the potential of a Mike Vick type of player, jut definately not at his skill level. Let us have VY run out of the pocket and get some scrambles in, that is how he plays. Not saying VY is better than Collins, but one start this year would not hurt, just to see how he is progressing.

by cashvilletitans12 on Oct 8, 2009 8:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Guh

The fact that this post has to be written at all speaks poorly of the collective intelligence of the Titans fanbase. Jade Scorpion and his ilk are the Unibrow on the collective face of Titans fans.

by BigTitanFan on Oct 8, 2009 8:24 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Whether I agree with TJS or not

Your comment is idiotic. If you don’t have anything useful to add other than “Der, you’re stupid for having a thought” then keep your trap shut.

He presents an argument (which I don’t necessarily agree with) and you come and name-call and offer nothing relevant to anything. YOU are the Unibrow on the collective face of idiots on the internet.

by TNTitans on Oct 8, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So what does that make you?

I agree with BigTitanFan, and T—Rac’s Posse and hal.

If you really, really think that we should fire Jeff Fisher, well, then my opinion is that you are an idiot.

And I am free to express my opinion.

Official MCM Hater!

Retire #9!

by gramsey712 on Oct 8, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's easy

To call someone an idiot from the safety of the internet.

You are free to express your opinion, that is true. But just because you have the FREEDOM to call someone an idiot doesn’t make you any less of an asshole for doing so.

ESPECIALLY when you have no counter-example or counter argument to back up your opinion.

by TNTitans on Oct 8, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude this whole "safety of the internet" claim is annoying

I’ve called people idiots plenty of times in person as well. Probably millions of times.

And you’re right. I am an asshole. But that doesn’t mean I am wrong, and the fear of somebody thinking I am an asshole will not stop me from pointing out when people talk out of their ass about stuff that I spend a good deal (probably way too much, different topic) reading, thinking, and sometimes even researching about.

I’m not saying Fisher is doing a good job and doesn’t deserve criticism, I am saying that FIRING him is beyond stupid, especially when you inspect his success rate vs. the rest of the NFL. I’m not excusing him, but bad years happen. Hell, the Mighty Belichick MISSED THE PLAYOFFS the year after their 1st Super Bowl. Cowher had a bad enough season to where they picked high enough to pick Roethlisberger. It happens. I’m not saying Jeff Fisher is the best in the NFL, but he is top 10 by just about any standard, and I think it is dumb to suggest to fire a guy who is consistently top 10 in the world in his highly specialized profession. Especially when you consider the fact that the success rate of new hires in this profession is HORRIBLE.

As I wrote in the post, winning a Super Bowl is as much luck as anything else, if not moreso. Jeff Fisher, like the majority of coaches throughout the history of the NFL, has not been the beneficiary of this luck. However, in my opinion he presents us the most solid chance of us being good enough to where IF the luck goes our way, we’ll get there.

Everybody has the right to disagree. However, as Gramsey said, unless proven otherwise elsewhere on this site (SuperHorn comes to mind, I used to think he wasretarded and I soon figured out that no, he’s really smart) then that person who disagrees with this is an idiot.

T-Rac's Posse - T-Rac is one boss raccoon.
My personal Tribute to Air McNair

by T--Rac's Posse on Oct 8, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

I feel like TJS has presented a good deal of research on the topic as well, and makes some fair points about Fisher’s post-season record.

I think those arguments hold some value and shouldn’t be dismissed as the ramblings of some hairbrained idiot.

I also disagree about Super Bowls being the be-all and the end-all of professional football. If you aren’t fielding a 13-3 team to win a Super Bowl (teams like StL who have ZERO chance aside), then why are you playing? You can’t say that coaches with multiple Super Bowl rings (Walsh, Landry, Belichick, Johnson, etc) were simply “lucky” and that their skills as coaches had nothing to do with post season success. While luck certainly plays a part, it is not the only part of the equation. Certainly you would not argue that teams like the ’08 lions or St Louis or the ’08 Chiefs do badly because they have bad luck, would you?

And so all this begs the question: if you are sure that Fisher is not doing a good job and does deserve criticism, then when does the debate turn from “Is he doing a good job or not” to “Does he deserve to continue to hold his job”?

I don’t know the answer to this question, I’m just curious. How long does he need to continue doing poorly before he’s on the proverbial hot seat? We can argue back and forth as to whether or not regular-season success is the ultimate coaching statistic (I personally believe that, while important, is only a stepping stone to post-season succes. After all: you can’t do well in the post season if you never get there, and you can’t get there without regular season success) and so that probably is what the argument boils down to.

Has Fisher, in the past 15 seasons, been successful or not? Do you value regular season wins as highly as post-season wins? If Yes, then successful. If No, then Unsuccessful.

by TNTitans on Oct 8, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was kind of embarrassed for you when you got so passionately worked up over accusing me of doing what you did in your response (only with your CAPS LOCK key on) that I didn’t say anything but I’m glad gramsey did.

I guess you confused Jade’s sprawling diatribe for having a case. Let me enlighten you: wordiness does not equal worthiness when it comes to argument.

The reason no one “refutes” guys like that is that there is nothing of substance to refute. I mean, do you argue with 9/11 Truthers or The Flat Earth Society? Of course not.

If you need (and I can’t imagine why anyone who knows anything about the NFL would) reasons that firing Fisher would be a mistake see T-Rac’s post. Those are just a few & the rest are even more self evident.

by BigTitanFan on Oct 8, 2009 10:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

I just wanted to make the point that you should not be surprised

when someone calls you stupid for posting something stupid.

I have posted stupid things, and people called me on them. It didn’t hurt my feelings. And I am sure I will post stupid things in the future.

Official MCM Hater!

Retire #9!

by gramsey712 on Oct 8, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

I get called stupid on a regular basis.

The thing we have to remember is that we’re all fans of the same team and we wouldn’t be so passionate if we didn’t care.

Go Titans: it’s the fans of other teams that are idiots.

by TNTitans on Oct 8, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Embarrassment indeed

You’re right, I called you out for doing something that I did in my post, and for that I apologize.

But here’s the skinny: I don’t think that TJS has written a sprawling diatribe. I do believe that some Titans’ fans refuse to look at facts, and will sit with their fingers in their ears chanting “I’m not listening” when it comes to criticizing the only head coach this team has known.

Have we had some success in the regular season over the past 15 years? Absolutely. Have we had some spectacular failures? You bet. So, as I’ve said above, you either are satisfied with regular season wins and underproduction in the post season or you want the team to make it to the next level and turn those 13-3 seasons into Super Bowl runs.

Allow me to reiterate: I actually agree with T-Rac when he says that coach deserves criticism but probably does not need to be fired, not yet anyway. But then I ask you to ask yourself, how much longer do we do well in the regular season and lose in the playoffs before Jeff Fisher is on the hot seat? Ask Marty Schottenheimer, with a career W/L % of 0.613, 5-13 in the playoffs, and no Super Bowl rings what he thinks about the argument we’re having.

by TNTitans on Oct 8, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah. Well thanks for that. I don’t know about anyone holding on to Fisher just because he’s been the only coach; I don’t know anyone like that so I’m not familiar with the position.

I am, however, familiar enough with the Titans and the NFL to know that bouncing Fisher would be such an ignorant move that our beloved Franchise would become the laughing stock of the NFL, somewhere between the Detroit Lions and the early-years Buccaneers, while some other team would take just long enough to fire their coach before bringing Fisher in and then celebrating like a wino at an open bar.

By and large Fisher is what is right with this organization even if I disagree with some of his choices (read: signing Kerry Collins, drafting Chris Henry).

For fans to turn on him at this point would be akin to the Confederate Army to decide that Robert E. Was their problem. As with the Rebs, we’re losing but without the man up top we wouldn’t even be putting up a
fight.

by BigTitanFan on Oct 8, 2009 11:13 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and...

Your statement about “either satisfied with regular season wins or want to win a superbowl” is a false dichotomy at best and a strawman at worst. Those of us you don’t agree with understand that Fisher is the one thing in the Titans organization that is consistently Super Bowl quality.

by BigTitanFan on Oct 8, 2009 11:18 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

False dichotomy?

I don’t understand: we either win Super Bowls or we don’t. What’s the third option?

by TNTitans on Oct 8, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that’s obvious. I guess in your mind the head coach is the only factor that determines whether or not a given team wins the Superbowl.

That is the only way you can use your either/or scenario to defend canning Fisher. And that kind of simplistic reasoning just doesn’t make sense of what happens in the NFL.

by BigTitanFan on Oct 8, 2009 11:36 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Now come on

I didn’t mean to imply that the only thing that wins Super Bowls is coaching. Clearly missed opportunities and lack of execution will hobble a Super Bowl contender, and luck certainly has a lot to do with winning it all.

At this point, however, it seems as if we’ll just have to agree to disagree and call it a day.

by TNTitans on Oct 8, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure. As does budget, injuries, front office – all
factors coach Fisher can’t control.

On agree to disagree: good idea. I think you are dead wrong (as I’m sure you think of me) but you root for the best franchise in the NFL and that’s a sign of vast intelligence.

Screw the Colts.

by BigTitanFan on Oct 8, 2009 12:12 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

You want somebody who'll make chicken salad out of chickensh*t

you hire Bobby Johnson (just not Ted Cain).

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager.

by August West on Oct 8, 2009 9:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Fifteen years is a long time.

People get burnt out.

That’s it.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

by DannoE on Oct 8, 2009 10:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Find me proof this has anything to do with being burned out

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by T--Rac's Posse on Oct 8, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Find me proof that it isn't.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

by DannoE on Oct 8, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

thats as possible as it is speculative

The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.

by hal41605 on Oct 8, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's reasonable speculation.

Same as anything else on this site.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

by DannoE on Oct 8, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

fisher is burned out

therefore nick harper sucks, heimerdinger has lost his mind, mark jones had a really poorly timed injury, kearse and kvb are 57 years old, and our secondary is crushed by injuries. sorry, just doesn’t compute. have mistakes been made? obviously, but nothing points to fisher somehow not being fully engaged or burned out. sometimes you just don’t get it right.

The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.

by hal41605 on Oct 8, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

therefore nick harper sucks, heimerdinger has lost his mind, mark jones had a really poorly timed injury, kearse and kvb are 57 years old,

All of this falls on Fisher, though. And, it’s not unreasonable to think that the reason he didn’t handle these issues is because he’s burnt out. It’s speculative, yes. But, not handling the corner and return positions definitely points to someone who isn’t engaged. Or, he has his head so far up his own ass that he can’t see the glaring issues on front of him on the field. His track record would indicate that he’s smarter than that. Whatever the case, it isn’t good.

by SuperHorn on Oct 8, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think those things just indicate that he (really THEY)

simply screwed stuff up. they bet on being able to sustain last year’s team one more year and they were wrong. why that happened is anyone’s guess, but they are all guesses.

in hindsight, it’s obvious that the titans needed to be more active in free agency and sign fewer rookies— positions like corner, qb, and de rarely are filled by rookies effectively. but the titans never have been a team to do big things in free agency, and it’s not exactly outrageous to suggest that bud is a tad on the cheap side— titans have never been a team to take their salary cap to the max. even if this is all on fisher, i think it’s far more likely that he just got it wrong this time. he put faith in veterans that got the job done last year but simply aren’t performing this year. also remember that we have a general manager who is supposed to have a large role in shaping the roster too. reinfeldt is as much to blame as fisher on these fronts, is he burned out too?

The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.

by hal41605 on Oct 8, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speculation is definitely something I do all the time

Example being “Fisher did not solve return problems that were obvious to the average fan (at this point everything is true, now here is the speculation), therefore I think Jeff Fisher overestimated Ryan Mouton and trusted Rookies too much in a very key spot, and possibly overvalued his ability to coach up a return man.” This is solid speculation, and there are a million conclusions to come to based on how Fisher has mishandled the running game, return game, secondary, etc., etc.

However, speculating that he is burned out is crossing a line I try (though not always succeed – see Vince Young comments and posts) to avoid crossing. Burned out? To my eyes he is coaching as hard and is as engaged as before. He is handling the media the same as always, and he sure as heck didn’t seem burned out when he was calling fake punts in the first NFL event of the 2009 season. Nor has he seemed burned out on the sidelines. Does he seem slightly beaten down after starting 0-4 in a season that had outside shot Super Bowl hopes? Maybe, depending on your view. But burned out… I just don’t see it, and the evidence used to say he is burned out to me is really, really weak. “Well his mismanaged the return game, that’s a sign of being burned out.” When has this been true before? What precedent says “You know a coach is burned out when the special teams begins to suck.” I just don’t see any connection there. None.

T-Rac's Posse - T-Rac is one boss raccoon.
My personal Tribute to Air McNair

by T--Rac's Posse on Oct 9, 2009 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fox Sports:

Tennessee has a chance to salvage its season. But the AFC South is a very tough division and that makes it harder for them.

But if any coach can hang in there and get things turned around and make something positive out of a 0-4 start, it is Jeff Fisher. I have always been impressed with him and the Titans franchise has been lucky to have him for so long. They have been through this before — the Titans started 0-5 in 2006 and finished 8-8 — and there was talk then of getting rid of Jeff. But they were smart enough not to do that. He’s proven that he can get his team out of this situation.

The other thing is that I don’t think people realized was how important (current Lions head coach) Jim Schwartz was to that team. This is a big adjustment for Chuck Cecil replacing Schwartz as defensive coordinator. Chuck was one of the toughest guys I ever played against and he was half nuts. Now, I know he will be fine, but it will take time because coaches don’t always have immediate success when they are elevated to a coordinator’s position.

"As strong as a team as we are on paper, you have to go out and prove it. We have yet to prove that we're the team we think we are,'' Keith Bulluck

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by Aditya T (smashville) on Oct 8, 2009 4:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I am not coming down on either side of this arguement yet, but................................

Denver fired a coach that was at the helm for their two superbowl wins and had a .598 winning percentage. He had almost the same exact time in tenure as their head coach as Fisher has as ours and has two more SB wins and a better win percnetage and yet was fired. Some would say that Pat Bowlen was an idiot to fire Shanahan and yet after three years of not making the playoffs in a weak AFC West they sit at 5-0 with a coach that was a young coordinator the year prior and in the off season seemed to be doing everything wrong with his QB and WR. We will see where they end up after 16 games, but they are already on the inside track to win the division that was supposed to belong to SD. The only real evidence of success in a franchise is Super Bowl wins. I agree with TNTitans, I don’t know when we ask for a change, but how long do we wait before we expect more from Fisher?

by ArmyTitansFan on Oct 12, 2009 12:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs