Starting Vince Young Against The Colts: Pros And Cons From August West

by August West on Oct 5, 2009 10:40 AM CDT in Commentary Comment 47 comments

Pros:

• We need to see what Vince Young has to offer before next year, and we need to see him for a long-term stretch. We need to see if he can prepare like a pro, and handle adversity better than he did before: no whining, no dodging the press after a tough outing, no stories about throwing things in the locker room. I want to see him take the hits like a pro, then brush it off and get back to work. If he can't do that then he's toast in this league.

• I trust Vince Young in a primetime game/rivalry game more than a noon start. It's not as much a stats thing as it is a gut feel you got watching him in the past. He loves the big stage and it's almost always brought out the best (see the 2007 MNF game against the Saints).

• If we're going to get a spark, then lets get it in the only game that could even possibly come close to mattering this year.

• While I don't know if VY will be much better than Kerry, there is almost no possible way he'd be any worse than a 5/6 TD/INT ratio and a 68.9 QB rating.

• I also know that unless he's complete mush between the ears, VY has to be somewhat better than he was in 2007 simply due to a better O-line, Chris Johnson and a VASTLY improved receiving corps. All of those should mean that he can run more when he wants to, and not because he's being forced to.

• Vince doesn't fix our horrendous secondary, but he could give the D some time to rest by not creating so many 3-and-outs and changing the field position.

• Bob Sanders still isn't playing, and he won't be 100% if he makes it back this week. I still don't buy that the Colts' D is that good (My analysis on stopping the Seneca Wallace-led Seahawks: dismissive wanking motion).

Follow us through the jump for the cons...

Cons:

• The we'll still probably give-up 500 yards in the air to Peyton, and any loss will be blamed on Vince by some segments of the fanbase.

• On a visceral, somewhat illogical level, I hate to see any position turned-over by default. i would so rather VY win it than get it by Kerry's complete failure.

• Inserting VY after the bye-week gives him 2 weeks to run the 1st team in practice.

• VY still made dumb mistakes in the preseason... the kind of mistakes that would get any starting QB killed on a competitive team.

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Con:

You unzip your pants and find that their is a calculator down there.

One of the best lines on the show to date.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.

by Jimmy on Oct 5, 2009 10:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The best

by WC22 on Oct 5, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Every single Titans fan sees that VY should start now

Just after the week four game against the Jags.

Not trying to be a d1ck or nothing, but…..told ya so (http://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2009/9/22/1050459/a-glimpse-at-the-truth).

If someone can find the video from the opening drive VY’s rookie year against the Colt’s where the crappy, helpless Titan’s showed up and ran it down the Colt’s throat capped off by a 25 yard VY TD, I would like to suggest that for one of the “pro’s”.

Go titans.

by T the D on Oct 5, 2009 10:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

At this point, I'm not sure there are any cons.

Mostly because that would indicate that things could get worse than they are now. I’m not sure that’s possible.

by SuperHorn on Oct 5, 2009 11:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

We can’t “super-lose” a game. Can we?

by TNTitans on Oct 5, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

we kinda just did.

"hey, quit reading these ridiculous words of wisdom and get back to work!"

by stetix01 on Oct 5, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

by mattd97 on Oct 5, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh we havnt seen anything

Until peyton comes here and destroys us not just in front of our own crowd but the entire nfl

by danomite on Oct 5, 2009 1:19 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

tough to make this list

when none of the cons really matter very much.

The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.

by hal41605 on Oct 5, 2009 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This sucks.

by Shainoc on Oct 5, 2009 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Unless Young starts in the secondary

This makes no difference.

by Reg Dunlop on Oct 5, 2009 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

maybe no in immediate wins

but we have to start looking at the future direction of this franchise , and the VY decision is the pivotal part of that.

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager.

by August West on Oct 5, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

how bout putting a qb....

that can throw less INT’s, at least complete bs ones. yeah i know VY’s INT rate is high, and to clear things up he’s been in the NFL for 4 years, he has NOT been a four year player. technicalities point that VY is actually a almost 2 year player. and nobody knows how VY will come out to play, NOBODY, no matter who they think they are. and to go back to the INT’s, he was thrown into the fire and forced to play-he was young, INT’s arent that uncommon. but when those things are coming from a veteran that just signed a 2 year deal??? id take the younger athlete any day.

what i dont understand is the booing he received, it was the first game of the season against at the time a decent secondary in jax, and the boos start flying. the first game! qb’s are going to have bad games no matter who they are (were seeing in the flesh this year, although its been 4 back to back) and now that KC CONTINUES to stink the joint up and still there are not as many boos as VY received. i just dont get it.

"Waiting for the return of the Mac"
"Let VY loose, give him the chance to play his heart out. for himself, for the titans...and for mcnair"
"Titans & Texans fan, dont bug me w/your petty b.s., life's confusing enough."

by kg_2005 on Oct 5, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which Vince?

I think Vince has been brainwashed in to being a dropback QB, trying to stay in the pocket and look through all of his reads before taking off. That’s a great thing for a mobile QB with better passing skills, but Vince isn’t the greatest of passers.

The same fans that wanted him off the field last year, want him back this year. How soon we forget that he’s not that good of a passer either.

The only way he should be back is if he’s willing to take off when the play breaks down, instead of trying to prove to his critics that he can pass.

By no means am I saying Kerry is a better choice, I just think Vince is going to have to revert back to his rookie year’s performance to actually be a viable upgrade for us.

by ericjosephson on Oct 5, 2009 12:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Running...

after the first reads has been a point of emphasis this offseason for Young. Believe he and the coaches have said it multiple times.

by WC22 on Oct 5, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

thank you

i was going to say something to this effect. that wass the most frustrating thing about his sophmore season. his advantage is his running and playmaking, yet it seemed like he was determined to be a drop back traditional qb. i dont know if that was him trying to ‘improve’, or his coach telling him to do that. i dont know. but when he plays as a drop back passer hes not worth a nfl roster spot. when he plays like vince young hes the offensive ROY and was a (albeit back-ups, back-ups reserve) pro-bowler and can be a difference maker to this team.

by mattd97 on Oct 5, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

mcnair(rip)...

wasnt the greatest passer coming out of college either, dont anybody jump the gun, i wont go as far as to say that VY will turn into air. but at the same time, nobody knows that answer either. and ill reiterate, nobody.

by kg_2005 on Oct 5, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

As strange as it sounds

I want our fourth year qb to play like a rookie again…

by Shainoc on Oct 5, 2009 12:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

^ So true

by earlers on Oct 5, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

...and a different OC.

"hey, quit reading these ridiculous words of wisdom and get back to work!"

by stetix01 on Oct 5, 2009 12:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Vince Young v. Kerry Collins

1. Start KC, but bring VY in against Indy for “special packages”. If I remember correctly, in 2006 or 2007, VY and Travis Henry dominated the Colts D in Indy by running the deep veer out of shotgun formation. Why has this not been done since? Put in VY with a run first scheme and give him options to keep the ball and run. VY HAS NEVER BEEN USED CORRECTLY IN MY OPINION BY THE TITANS OFFENSIVE STAFF>

2. KC footwork - It’s been a nagging point for me while watching KC throw the ball this year. To me, it seems that during every pass, he’s leaning backwards, throwing off his back feet, or throwing across his body. He never stops at the end of this dropback and plants and throws with the weight of his motion carrying him forward. Maybe I just notice because I played QB my entire adolescent career, but I would think the coaching staff has to be picking this up on film. Make him take a 7 step drop instead of a 5 step drop to encourage him to move forward as he releases. This will improve his accuracy and curb his tendency to overthrow targets.

Bring Back Vince Young!

by pigskinpundits.com on Oct 5, 2009 12:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Bottom Line

Vince Young and the Titans are not a good fit for each other. Nothing against the Titans; nothing against Vince. But, this had been a shotgun wedding since day one, where Bud Adams was holding the shotgun. It’s never going to work. The type of offense where Vince excels is not the type of offense the Titans coaching staff wants to run. It’s oil and water. That’s one of the main reasons Fisher is so resistant. Vince is almost surely not going to be with the Titans next year, so the only reason to put him in is to audition him for other teams, so maybe a trade will be possible. No need to start the audition until later in the year.

by JimR on Oct 5, 2009 1:05 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

JimR

I wouldn’t state it as a “fact” that VY won’t be with the team next year.

If he comes in and wins games, you never know.

KC had a very similiar beginning to his career, but as he matured, he became more professional.

I will agree with you on this point. The Titans offensive scheme will have to be adjusted to suit VY’s skillset. This may not be a bad thing. It could mean a return to a more aggressive running style.

Bring Back Vince Young!

by pigskinpundits.com on Oct 5, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jim

There’s no way you could possibly know this…

The type of offense where Vince excels is not the type of offense the Titans coaching staff wants to run. It’s oil and water. That’s one of the main reasons Fisher is so resistant.

by SuperHorn on Oct 5, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How can you say that?!?

Everybody knows it! Fisher wants a conservative, low risk, no drama, pocket passer, grind-the-defense-down offense. Vince excels at being a run-and-gun, high risk/high potential reward, lots of drama guy. Does anybody disagree with that? Does anybody think those two styles go together?

by JimR on Oct 5, 2009 1:23 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

You're missing the point.

Unless you have a direct line to Fisher, you’re like the rest of us. In the dark. None of us know why “Fisher is so resistant.”

I’m not disagreeing with you about how he fits into the offense.

by SuperHorn on Oct 5, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correct

Jeff Fisher does not talk to me, but I said that the disconnect on styles was one of main reasons for his resistance (not necessarily the only one), and I don’t think you have to be a mind reader to see that Fisher is obviously a lot more comfortable with etc, etc Collins type of play and skills compared to Vince’s. Vince is not Jeff’s guy. He’s Bud’s guy.

by JimR on Oct 5, 2009 1:41 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Vince Young and the Titans are not a good fit for each other.

This is not true. Replace “Titans” with “Jeff Fisher” and you’ve got it right.

by ctex80 on Oct 5, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

mcnair...

was not fish’s guy at first either, and when word came down for the switch, well…you know what happened from there.

by kg_2005 on Oct 5, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There will be no "audition..."

…because if what you say is true, and Jeff Fisher is really willing to take everyone down with the ship, then we’ll just cut Vince because everyone in the universe will know at that point that we’re not going to pick-up his roster bonus. Why give-up a precious pick for Young when you can get him as a cut player and negotiate your own, better contract?

We’ll just eat the $700,000 – and KC will be the starting QB for another year in 2010, and possibly in 2011. And Jeff Fisher will have proven himself to be the Captain Ahab of the NFL.

Look, a long reading of your history of posts clearly indicates you’d simply rather never see Vince take a snap under center again, and you will always – no matter WHAT – find some justification for why Kerry Collins should take every snap in every game.

We’re trying to find out Vince’s future (and the team’s, for that matter), whereas you’ve already made up your mind. We get it – you don’t want Vince; and if he stumbles this year, you’ll have a chorus backing you up. A BIG chorus.

But let Vince settle it on the field.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Oct 5, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Read my profile

by JimR on Oct 5, 2009 4:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

not to say that VY did quit on the team...

but ppl are going to use that as their way of judging VY, but maybe ppl should think, maybe he would not have “quit” on the team if the fans didnt quit on him so early in the season, really early. i just think from day one ppl in tenn did not want VY drafted, even after that spectacular nat. champ. game. cant handle pressure? that was a pressure game to the fullest, especially to defeat the heavily favored trojans.

by kg_2005 on Oct 5, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's right, blame it on the fans,

the coaches, the weather, the injury, the gods, the planetary alignment, the death of Communism, the end of Seinfeld and Madonna’s conversion to Kabbalah… anything other than VY.

I don’t recall anyone questioning if VY can handle the pressure; it’s the adversity that brought out the worst in him. he didn’t face much of it in college or high school, but every NFL QB deals with it on a regular basis.

Were there those in Nashville who didn’t think he could hack it? Sure, but that’s the case with every 1st round QB. There were also the vast majority who loved what they say his rookie year and hoped VY really would take-off.

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager.

by August West on Oct 5, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Vince's fall.....

…was a result of his own antics.

But I think we’ve reached the point where a proper rebuke has been replaced with excommunication. There is no denying at this point that Vince Young has payed a HEAVY, HEAVY price for what happened in Game One last year. He deserved the wrath of many, but it’s just getting ridiculous now. Now it’s become a grudge from a unforgiving coach who’s gotten an abundance of second chances himself over the years. Not a lot of coaches without a Super Bowl Title get the chance to rebuild four or five times. How about just giving Vince ONE second chance, Jeff? Who knows? Maybe he flops, and you’ll never have to deal with him ever again.

At some point, Fisher has to give Young a chance to redeem himself – or he should not expect the fans to offer himself any more chances at redemption. If Fisher can’t get past what happened even NOW, then I’m going to have a hard time getting past the fact that Fisher will not have won a playoff game in six years at the end of this season, and will have spent 4 of the last 6 seasons at .500 or worse.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Oct 5, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed that Fisher should bury the hatchet.

if he doesn’t, and we win less than 9 games without ever seeing VY, Fisher will lose any support he’d have left with most Titans fans. At that point it’s personal and petty,

Music City Miracles blogger and official Jon Bovi tour manager.

by August West on Oct 5, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

let me....

clarify, that i did not blame his downfall on the fans. but more of a question to why he would get that type of response so very early, as i said earlier, first game of the season (i can understand expectations, but come on, weve waited for four games w/collins for a couple of times in his career with us already), and the deficit was not that bad, and booing loud enough i can hear from my tv? why? and now, and before, ppl can suddenly wait all day for collins to get it together when there does not seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel. and still does not get close to the type of reaction that vy received…it was the guys 3rd year. but its ok, good things come to those who wait, and just can’t wait for him to get a 2nd go.

hoping at least, since im forced to see collins behind center, he can go back to playing somewhat decent. theres enough talent around to save him, hey maybe we’ll see alot of him not throwing to open cornerbacks.

by kg_2005 on Oct 5, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dsimissive Wanking Motion

I literally laughed out loud.

Sadly, I was eating a Philly cheesesteak and laughed hot provolone cheese and beef all into my face, chest, and crotch region.

Regardless, that is a perfect analysis of ANY defense shutting down any team led by Seneca Wallace.

T-Rac's Posse - T-Rac is one boss raccoon.
My personal Tribute to Air McNair

by T--Rac's Posse on Oct 5, 2009 1:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

In my opinion a coach needs to evolve with his players.

I coach a middle school team and help out with our high school, and I am in no way saying that is anything like coaching in the NFL. I am no where near the coach those guys are. However with that being said the one thing that coaches share is an ever evolving team. Players are always coming and going. For what its worth I beleive that what seprates a good coach from a great coach is knowing his talent and 1 how to get the most out of them and 2 adjusting his scheme to play to their strenghts.

This may be more relavent in High school ball because you have only the talent that goes to your school. Where as in Pro ball you go out and get your talent. However it still plays the part in both senarios. I just floors me the staff does not take advantage of this. No Vince is not a savior when it comes to passing however with the right playcalling he can make a defenseive coordinators life a living hell. The same could be said for our Defense also. Our front four is not getting it done and neither is our secondary. Change the Damn scheme already!!!

by bullrider73 on Oct 5, 2009 1:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agree completely

Unwillingness to change and adapt by the entire coaching staff is probably the biggest single problem with the Titans this year.

by JimR on Oct 5, 2009 2:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

This is ALL Fisher.

That’s my biggest problem with him, and what makes this a damn tough team to root for. It may very well be that Vince is not with the Titans next year, and that will be a damn shame. Because the source of the problem will still be here.

by ctex80 on Oct 5, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is most important

Is that we find out one way or the other what the deal is with Vince. I have to believe that he’s improved mentally and has a better feel for Dingers scheme. And considering what we are looking at this year and next, it makes sense to get the question about his future answered now.

If he truly is the QB of the future for the Titans, as Fisher consistently states, then the future needs to begin now. If we put Collins out there next Sunday and we get waxed again, then we will have wasted an opportunity to get an answer to the VY question, and we are running out of time to get a good answer.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.
Vince Lombardi

by TmanInTn on Oct 5, 2009 2:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well to help your D

I know this one CB that is available, he is a real speedster, might be able to be a shut down corner, he goes Pacman.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Oct 5, 2009 3:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Fisher and the FO

Just my take:

1. I don’t think they realized (or wanted to admit) how big of an impact losing Albert would have on the defense. When you are used to the luxury of pressure and penetration from your front 4 and then lose that, significant adjustments need to be made. If they are not, it leads to..

2. Issues in the secondary. Harper has been on the decline for a while, so if you are not going to show Albert the money, then you have to make an effort to upgrade the secondary. To enter the season with Harper and 2 rookies to handle the corner with Finnegan was asking for problems.

3. I am concerned about our bookend tackles as well. We spent huge $$$ on Stewart and Roos and they are not playing at the level they were last year. Kevin is a warrior but he consistently gets manhandled by younger, bigger and stronger NT’s.

4. Our special teams suck this year. Not only the obvious issues with our return game, but our coverage is lousy as well.

I really think Jeff and the FO were a little blinded by the great regular season record last year and have been caught off guard by our deficiencies. The rest of the season should be about adjustments and preparing for next year. Find out what you have in VY, because if he isn’t the answer we need a QB for the future. Tweak the defense and play the young corners instead of Harper so they can grow and improve. Figure out WTF is wrong with Griffin and Hope and fix it.

This year is going to suck, but it will be worse if Jeff and the FO stubbornly bury their heads in the sand and gloss over the issues due to arrogance.

by rkdienethal on Oct 5, 2009 3:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs