Was the Ed Reed Hit on Chris Johnson Dirty?

by Jimmy on Jan 13, 2009 2:57 PM CST in Commentary Comment 51 comments

Any more questions? (Hat tip to G-Ram)

I guess they decided since they couldn't stop CJ (11 carries 72 yards in just over 1 quarter) they would just hurt him. I wouldn't jump to this conclusion except the fact that the Ravens, as the above linked article mentions, have a history of trying to take out the other team's best players.

And I won't buy the "Reed was just trying to keep him from fighting for extra yards" crap. As the first picture shows, CJ is down, so there is no reason for Reed to continue to bend him backwards.

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How can you argue

that he was trying to keep him from gaining extra yards? There are 2 tacklers at his feet. On top of that, once you start pushing a guy back his forward progress has stopped. While he is a great player he proved to be a douche on this play.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Jan 13, 2009 3:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That, and the fact that this is the only play during the game where they decided to "keep a player from gaining extra yards" while the whistle was blowing.

Stompin' your Terrible Towel and still hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Jan 13, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

...

God I hope Hines Ward just absolutely levels Reed on Sunday

by Michaeltastic on Jan 13, 2009 3:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That drive back was awful

It’s those types of plays that I hate to see, regardless of who is involved. I hope CJ’s back is ok.

by LovinBlue on Jan 13, 2009 3:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Thank you for bringing this up!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now the MSM should take a look at it and talk about it. I’m surprised in took this long….

http://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2009/1/12/718798/jeff-fisher-s-season-endin#

by T Coleman on Jan 13, 2009 4:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

thug mentality...starts from #52 down.

i was screaming at the TV! I agree, not enough has been made about this. ed reed should have been ejected. it still pisses me when i think abaout it.

by stetix01 on Jan 13, 2009 5:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I replayed the game last night and I saw that

It was dirty and Reed should have been thrown out. They called Stewart for throwing an arm to the head of a lineman on the otherside of the play. I don’t know if all the officials attention got drawn to that or what but this should have at least drawn a flag.

by Titanfan on Jan 13, 2009 5:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The refs should definitely have blown the whistle earlier on that play, but they didn’t. In any case, CJ had an ankle injury, and Ed Reed was trying to strip the ball from CJ’s upper body. I’m a bit skeptical that Ed Reed somehow managed to hurt CJ’s ankles by twisting his back. Especially given that CJ ran for 10 yards on the next play.

As for this “history of trying to take out a team’s best players” based completely on one interview with Terrell Suggs saying “We have something special planned” for Hines Ward, and an injury to Rashard Mendenhall, well, usually it takes more instances and more evidence to develop a history. Rashard Mendenhall hardly qualifies as one of the Steelers’ best players either. Albert Haynesworth got away with nailing Joe Flacco despite the whistles blowing in his ear during the regular season game, and he certainly has another incidence of purposely injuring another player, so by that logic, I suppose we can assume that the Titans are a dirty team and demand suspensions all around. Now, I certainly don’t believe that, but it’s the same style of argument as has been made against the Ravens.

The Ed Reed defense goes something like this…
1) Ed Reed probably wanted to strip the ball, which explains why he was holding CJ’s body up to avoid him being down by contact, and is consistent with the Ravens attempting to strip the ball all game.
2) The whistle hadn’t blown, so although the play was strange, it was certainly legal and if (1) holds than there was a very simple reason for it that had an awful lot to do with winning the game regardless of any injuries.
3) It seems unlikely that what Ed Reed did had an impact on CJ getting hurt, because Ed Reed hit CJ in the upper body and CJ’s ankle was injured. Not to mention the fact that CJ got up on his own and carried the ball successfully on the next play.
4) So if Ed Reed’s hit was legal, had an honest purpose, and was not related to CJ’s injury, it seems fairly clear that it was not a dirty play.

by math_geek on Jan 13, 2009 6:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Unbelievable!!!!!

Let’s do some math:

Picture 1 – two Titan knees down; 1 Raven tackling on knees and 1 Raven tackling on torso. Play over.

Picture 2 – two Titan knees still down; 1 Raven tackling on ankles, 1 Raven tackling on knees, 1 Raven tackling on torso, 1 Raven tackling on neck. Player injured.

So in Picture 1, 18% of Raven defense tackling Titan.
Picture 2, 36% of Raven defense tackling Titan…a 50% increase in a millisecond.

This discussion is not about what Haynesworth did several years ago…no Titan fan condoned that action. This discussion is not about what Haynesworth did to Flacco in week 4. He was penalized. This is about what is depicted in the pictures above.

I don’t mind you supporting your team, but to come on the Titan’s blog making the claim that “…hit was legal, had an honest purpose, and was not related to CJ’s injury…” is difficult to stomach.

by T Coleman on Jan 13, 2009 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Come on

It seems unlikely that what Ed Reed did had an impact on CJ getting hurt, because Ed Reed hit CJ in the upper body and CJ’s ankle was injured. Not to mention the fact that CJ got up on his own and carried the ball successfully on the next play.

Do me a favor….find some friends, have them lay on your legs like the were on CJ’s and have another friend stand you up. Let me know what parts of your body twist. I am willing to bet that you ankle takes some of the blow.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.

by Jimmy on Jan 13, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that’s an interesting argument, although I’ll pass on the offer. Couldn’t pay me to be a football player. I’d also have to find some really big friends to make the test valid.

I can definitely see the injury being the ankle tackle received from Raven #1 (the guy under Suggs). I don’t think it was intentional, its a basic ankle tackle, and that happens on those plays.

However, with 500 pounds of people on my calves, I can’t see how somebody grabbing my shoulders or arms would cause my ankles to move much.

by math_geek on Jan 13, 2009 7:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As you just noted, you have no idea what you're talking about.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

by DannoE on Jan 14, 2009 7:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for backing me up

I was beginning to believe I was on an island…..

by T Coleman on Jan 13, 2009 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, you're definitely not T!

But you have to realize they are always gonna defend their guys. You can’t always convince em you’re right.

But they were talking about this on ESPN radio today. It is not just Titan fans who feel this way, as referenced by the article from New York.

Stompin' your Terrible Towel and still hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Jan 13, 2009 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Play is over when the whistle is over. The Refs should have definitely blown the whistle earlier.

Now there were 3 tackling Ravens in the first picture, and 4 tackling Ravens in the second picture. I’m not sure what you mean by math, but I definitely count 3 and 4. Are we really going to say Random Raven #4 is a dirty player because he jumped onto a pile? If we can’t jump onto piles before the whistle blows in football anymore, what can we do? In any case, I don’t think that unidentifiable fourth Raven is why you’re upset, so I don’t know why you brought it up.

Look, I don’t dislike the Titans, don’t dislike CJ, and certainly had no desire to see CJ hurt, but in that first picture, Ed Reed has his hands under CJ, in his torso area, where presumably Chris Johnson would be holding the football, and pulling up and away. Is it really so hard to believe Ed Reed is playing the ball?

by math_geek on Jan 13, 2009 6:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

ack… meant to reply to T Coleman

by math_geek on Jan 13, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Picture 1

Suggs is not in contact with CJ, he is on top of Lewis, so I count it as 2. In picture 2, Suggs now has him by the waist and an additional player has joined. I’m not focused on Reed, I’m focused on the combined actions of the four players. Was it premeditated? Probably not. Was it excessive? Most definitely.

I’m perplexed at how you know when the whistle blew? If you are claiming that the Ravens instantaneously stopped as soon as the whistle blew, I find that hard to believe…you know that inertia thing.

Football is about the Ray Lewis/Ahmad Hall collision, it is not about four players contorting a defenseless player.

I’m a mild-mannered guy….your statements got me a little riled-up.

by T Coleman on Jan 13, 2009 7:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m fairly mild mannered too, and I have said time and again that the refs should have blown the whistle earlier because that was my first reaction when I saw the play. "Why aren’t they blowing the whistle? I could hear on my TV when the whistle blew and see when the refs moved in and thought they did it late. Clearly inertia means that the players would not completely stop, it’s not possible. Also clearly it would have been awful had Reed dropped CJ instantaneously when the whistle blew, he’s got to set him down.

I didn’t realize that you were focused more on the four players than on just Reed because the rest of the post is mostly about Ed Reed, so that’s what I was responding to. I also was responding to the idea that it was some dirty desire to injure Chris Johnson, which I don’t believe is true. If you think that these players just were piling on to much, then I agree with you, but it’s incumbent on the refs to blow the whistle because players are trained to keep piling on until after that happens.

Now, maybe I am just being a homer Ravens fan, but my close friends, who are not Ravens fans felt the same way. The play wasn’t dirty, but the refs should absolutely have blown the whistle earlier.

by math_geek on Jan 13, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a Homer,

you’re a homer. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Enjoy the rest of your season….

by T Coleman on Jan 13, 2009 7:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely a Titans fan

but I agree with “play is over when whistle blows”. In that play, CJ was fighting for extra yards after “almost tackles”. So the Ravens were getting a little steamed up, cause he was getting some extra yards. Once forward momentum is stopped / player is down, the refs have to blow the whistle. I have not seen this play again to see if the whistle was blown before or after they tried to fold CJ up like a folding chair.

that play upset me while i was watching it more than the no-call on the delay of game, by far. letting that kind of stuff happen after the play without consequence is a lot worse both in the trend it sets and the impact on a players career than a missed call on a play-clock expiration. albert stomps a guy after whistle blown? ejection and suspension. fair deal.

by numbertenox on Jan 13, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

whistle shmistle...its common sense. what if the whistle never blew?

do you just keep piling on and twisting a guy in an un natural position until something gives?

by stetix01 on Jan 14, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well, no

but on a play where the rb is fighting for extra yards and defenders are piling on to stop him, which start fights and get nasty frequently, the refs should be paying extra attention to what’s going on there and blow the whistle / separate if things are getting out of hand and throw flags if needed – not focusing on something going on away from the play.

by numbertenox on Jan 14, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

everytime Manning takes the field

i’m hoping someone knocks him out of the game. but remember that me thinking it and our players doing it are 2 different things.

by stetix01 on Jan 13, 2009 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If anybody takes the time to re-watch the game it

looked like the Ravens were trying to injure CJ by twisting him back, pushing his neck, and continually bending him after the whistle on several tackles.

The Titans are a tough team and they can deal with it, usually…

Ordering a “hit” on an opposing team is pretty low, but hey, it might get them a SB ring. Maybe we should try it next year!

by BeansCarter on Jan 13, 2009 8:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I was watching that play at a buddy’s house who doesn’t care about either team – he’s an Eagles fan – and he was pissed off. It’s obvious to anyone except Ravens fans that it was a dirty play. But, hey, CJ went out and no longer humiliated their vaunted D in the second half. So I guess Ed Reed did something right.

Hopefully Reed gets fined by the league for what he did. Or better yet, Hines Ward decks him again and fractures a few of his vertebrae in the process.

by DoofusOfErasmus on Jan 13, 2009 9:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

for everyone's viewing pleaseure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3uM3d42b6M&feature=related

The Official Enforcer of MCM

by hal41605 on Jan 13, 2009 9:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

man what a hit! how abaout a little deje vu this sunday, payback for cj!

by stetix01 on Jan 13, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The NFL

Has fined players all year where a flag was not thrown. All I want to know is WTF is the big ass fine on this one.

by Oden1 on Jan 13, 2009 10:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

And one last thing

As you can easily see in the pics and on TV. They were bending CJ with enough force to not only contort the hell out of him but ALSO move Suggs and Lewis 90 deg. Hell even the FBI would call that shit a CLUE.

by Oden1 on Jan 13, 2009 10:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ok maybe not the last thing............

If Reed was only trying to strip the ball and prevent CJ from getting more yardage, AND this is the just the way the Ravens play aggressive ball, Then why was it so obvious to the two Ravens not 4 foot away and facing the action that CJ was down and the play was over that they are just standing there watching?

by Oden1 on Jan 14, 2009 12:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Edit to add........

Keep in mind that this is happening BEFORE Harris had to jump into the mix to finally get them off CJ.

by Oden1 on Jan 14, 2009 12:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

I don’t think they made sure he was okay

by jmac1383 on Jan 14, 2009 1:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

BTW, the WORST part of that play is that there WAS a personal foul called...

…on a Titan for trying to break that scrum up.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

by DannoE on Jan 14, 2009 7:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

hmmm.

There’s nothing more I can add, so I’ll just throw my two cents in – It looked like Reed was trying to break CJ’s back. I think the argument that Reed didn’t want to jump on top of CJ to prevent him from “getting extra yards” is extreme homerism. Look, if you are on this blog, you have an interest in football and hopefully know how the game is played fairly. If you don’t think there is anything wrong with this tackle, then you should become a bowling fan, because you don’t know anything about football.

by FaninEcuador on Jan 14, 2009 7:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

His hit was not that Dirty, but this one was!!!!

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jan 14, 2009 1:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

what is going on with Titans players getting air born? Crumpler does it and fumbles…Ahmard does it and gets lit

by DonFrancisco on Jan 14, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure if Ahmard had that to do over again

he wouldn’t leave his feet before impact… clean first down though

Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.

by August West on Jan 14, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like the guy standing on the 14

“Hold him up Ray Ray, I’ll bend him over backwards!”

“That is, if you don’t stab him first.”

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Jan 14, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

HELL YEAH

Ray Lewis Murdered two people before the superbowl in Tampa!!!

Do it again Ray, and we will win it again in Tampa!!!

Hopefully Reed will bend backwards Heins Ward this Sunday, paralyzing him from the neck down, so at least he could still smile : )

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jan 14, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like the forearm to the head too.

That’s very Polamaluish.

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Jan 14, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nice

finally people see what is like to play the ravens twice a year….

but now we have to do it 3 times

by Bleed-Black&Gold on Jan 15, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So glad he was out

WON US THE GAME!

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jan 14, 2009 1:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

me too

i was thinking you guys were going to get crushed but then you hurt CJ and i was like hallelujah!

It’s a man’s game and people have been trying to take out other players for years…..still kind of mad that mendenhall got injured for the SEASON, i at least want to know if the guy is good before next year. but oh well that should give more fire under his belly next year.

by Bleed-Black&Gold on Jan 15, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by gramsey712 on Jan 15, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait until

Not way until

Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!

by gramsey712 on Jan 15, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by hal41605 on Jan 16, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

i don’t know who is dumb i mean, we are in the superbowl aren’t we? and your team is sitting at home watching the game right? So umm, yeah i think you are the dumbass my friend. Got Rings?

by Bleed-Black&Gold on Jan 18, 2009 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs