This is getting out of hand
I think that WAAYY too many people are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill with this Vince Young thing.
Vince had a bad day. In fact, it was one of his worst games I've watched. His behavior is inexcusable, but the fact that people are calling for his head is ridiculous. Others have mentioned this before, but with an athlete like Vince, he has always been the best player on the field. Failure is unfamiliar territory. So, in his third year as an NFL quarterback (which alone has it's own growing pains), there is a changing of the guard and he has to learn a completely new offense. As evidenced in the preseason and this last game, it hasn't "clicked" yet.
A string of events starts...Vince makes a terrible read and throws right to the safety in underneath coverage. VY makes a couple of good throws that are either dropped, or not caught up to on go routes because the receivers slow down. Last, he is picked off in a fluke interception by a defensive end. That's the boiling point, and Vince loses it. Danno hit the nail on the head when he said that we pay him enough money that he shouldn't pout. That point is well taken, but let's also not forget that he is still human. I'm sure many of you have had a bad day at the office, blown up at a coworker and regretted it.
I'd also point out that most are trying to draw conclusions without all the pertinent information. The reality is that unless you know Keith Bullock personally, there is no way you can understand what his motivations were by saying the defense "[didn't] quit." Similarly, we don't know what was said in the exchange between Haynesworth/Heimerdinger/Fisher and Vince. Until we see how this all plays out, I'd encourage you all to hold off on judgements.
Now, at the end of the day/season, the reality of our quarterback situation is that we need more production. Criticisms on that end area are clearly warranted and a serious concern. In that vein, I think that a lot needs to be put on the shoulders of the coaching staff. Chris Johnson is a start, but Vince Young needs weapons. Did anyone else see Desean Jackson on Sunday? I still think it was a mistake not to trade up for him in the second round. Without some real weapons to stretch the field, an offense run by Vince Young will never really hum. This leads me to my next point.
What I saw yesterday was more of the same, an offense not suited for Vince Young. Many of the VY haters have the same criticisms abouy VYs accuracy and his inability to be a prototypical NFL QB. In a lot of the cases they are right. Fisher had to know what he was getting into when he drafted Vince Young. He's not Cutler; he's not Leinart. Vince is a once in a generation athlete that happens to play the quarterback position.
Vince is a system quarterback. There, I said it. Unless you put him in a situation where the defense always has to account for his legs, he will be set to fail. The bottom line is that a team has to be built around his strengths, not the other way around. The problem here is that is a huge investment on the part of the Titans organization; a blind leap of faith. The information they have thusfar shows a unpredictable, inconsistent quarterback. But, that information isn't entirely accurate because the statistics are born from a system that isn't built around what makes Vince so dangerous. So, they are in some sort of a gray area. One one hand, it certainly isn't the same grind it out Fisher offense of yesteryear (though it looks that way on paper). On the other hand, it isn't exactly a spread offense run out of the shotgun either. Now, say what you want about spread offenses in the NFL, but I've seen no evidence that shows they can't work. And, given that Vince was the greatest player to ever run that sort of offense in college, isn't he exactly the guy you'd want to run that litmus test?
Enough of the rambling, let me get to the point here. The frustrations we saw on Sunday are not going away any time soon unless the Titans completely rework the offense. Fisher would do good by have a long conversation with Mack Brown about this issue. My fear is that Fisher/the Titans don't have it in them to put all their eggs in one basket with Vince. And, I can't really blame them. But, without that sort of commitment to build the future of the team around VY, I can't see him reaching his full potential.
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I'm
really hoping that this little break will help Vince realize that his job is not safe. Maybe he’ll come back in with that same motivation he had his rookie year when he wanted to get in there (although i hope collins doesn’t do as bad as he did in those games)
by Michaeltastic on Sep 9, 2008 9:54 AM CDT 0 recs
What concerns me
as a Horns fan is his change in demeanor. Granted, when he first started at Texas, he often looked uptight, but he slowly loosened and became one of our biggest cheerleaders. The team fed off his energy, yet despite his goofing off and fun attitude, he was deadly serious about winning. When I saw Vince his rookie year inspire the dead Titans, I was not surprised: He’s a unique leader.
Seeing him sulk like this is a bit bizarre. Not that he’s not hard on himself; I think many people have the false impression that VY won’t admit his mistakes when he is often his own harshest critic. However, I’ve never seen him sulk like that. Mack Brown talked about Vince’s early years at Texas, about Vince not being himself. Something took that from him, but thankfully, he got it back as he matured at Texas. It looks like SOMETHING has taken “it” from him in the NFL, if it’s the situation with his estranged father, his frustrations with learning a new offense, his bad receivers, the often unfair criticism he receives, or whatever. I hope for his sake he gets it back.
The thing is, if he didn’t cause this stupid drama, I think everything would be fine. Sure, he had a rough game, but it was not all bad, like I said in a previous post. He had one very good drive that led them to a TD, and it’s not like a multiple-turnover, defensive game is unexpected when the Jags and Titans play. Look at Garrard; he made some good throws but he was put on his back 7 times, lost a fumble in scoring position, and threw two costly picks himself. It was a tough offensive game for both sides, and that’s not surprise. The reason people are talking so much is not because of his rough game but because how he reacted on the sideline. I think the former would have blown over if not for the latter, especially if you list how many other QB’s in the league struggled or played subpar (Schaub, Manning, Palmer, Bulger, Garrard, to name a few).
He definitely needs to run more. Unfortunately, even if he comes back, this may be an injury that bugs him for the entire year like his hamstring last year.
by TheElusiveShadow on Sep 9, 2008 10:12 AM CDT 0 recs
Oh, and by the way
Chris Johnson has proved the naysayers wrong thus far, but… you need a receiver. I’m not saying this to excuse Vince, but your receivers can’t fight off jams well, can’t get separation on their routes, can’t outrun defenders, can’t catch consistently, and can’t catch in traffic. It makes me scratch my head since this is the NFL. Perhaps there’s something to the argument that the Titans could have waited to get Chris Johnson a round later, or at least traded up in the second to get Desean Jackson or something.
In all fairness, I know Hawkins didn’t play.
by TheElusiveShadow on
Sep 9, 2008 10:17 AM CDT
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I agree with everything you said.
It was an ugly game, but VY’s game probably wasn’t much uglier than Garrard’s. Vince might very well have made the play Collins made at the end. I mean, it’s not impossible or anything. But nobody likes a quitter, least of all me. And as I’ve said, the TEAM is a very good TEAM. For one guy to de-rail it like this is giving me a hard time here. I am not at all happy about it.
That’s right, too, about the WRs, but Vince also has a tendancy to throw behind guys on short yardage, and that’s not helping. Throwing long on the go-routes is fine—much, much better than the alternative—but it’s the off-target short stuff and all the drops that have really plagued the Offense.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on
Sep 9, 2008 10:21 AM CDT
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That SOMETHING
Is the fact that he is being shuffled in and out of offenses that don’t suit his strengths. To make matters worse, while they are tirelessly trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, he doesn’t have any downfield threats which makes matters infinitely worse.
Vince leaves college after operating one of the most prolific offenses in college football history. He flourishes his rookie year because he is working on instinct and they haven’t had time to try and fit him into the Chow mold. Second year, he struggles because Chow isn’t using him effectively. He comes in his third year, and struggles because, other than some downfield passing, the offense is more of the same. While I don’t like the way he reacted, I can’t really blame him. They aren’t building an offense to his strengths and you can be guaranteed that is frustrating him to no end…
by SuperHorn on
Sep 9, 2008 11:44 AM CDT
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I am not ready to say
this offense isn’t built around his strengths. McNair ran around a lot when Dinger was here with him. I think Vince just has to find a way to pull it together mentally.
Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles
by Jimmy on
Sep 9, 2008 11:59 AM CDT
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I'm not necessarily saying...
It isn’t built to his strengths, yet. The sample size is so small that it’s waayy too early to pass judgement. With that said, if Sunday was any indication, not much has changed. I have faith in Dinger…I just hope he know what he has.
As a side note, while it is encouraging that Dinger did great things with McNair, that doesn’t necessarily mean it will translate into success with VY. McNair was a better pure passer and not as dangerous in the open field.
by SuperHorn on
Sep 9, 2008 12:44 PM CDT
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I respect your opinion...
I really do. You know more about VY than most of us as you have followed him for a longer period of time. Please do not take this as criticism toward your comments or Young himself. I realize it is only one game into the season, but I think my frustration is that one game was exactly like most of the games last season. The idea of building an offense around a speedy QB is great in college. You have wider hash marks, the players aren’t as fast, and if it fails, the QB is gone in a few years anyway. In the NFL, you simply can’t do that. As we saw with Tom Brady, a player’s season or career can end very quickly…building the entire offense around someone is too risky. Now, I would like to see more plays called that do show his strengths. For example, the play where he has to decide whether to hand the ball off to the RB cutting inside, or take it to the outside himself. That play had a lot of success his rookie year and has rarely been seen since. I’m sure it is in the playbook, the team would be foolish not to have it. I know there are many others as well.
Young has always been known as a guy that has performed in the clutch, I think he may be in the “clutch” part of his career right now. He is at a fork in the road. He can either be the playmaker we all were so excited about, or he can make Merrill Hoge look like a genius. I hope he is healthy because I WANT HIM BACK ON THE FIELD NOW, to see what he can do.
by gotitans27 on
Sep 9, 2008 12:00 PM CDT
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"make Merrill Hoge look like a genius"
Not possible. Even if VY fails Mary is still a punch drunk idiot and a bad person.
Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!
by August West on
Sep 9, 2008 12:32 PM CDT
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First of all
You’ll never need to apologize to me for criticism…it’s encouraged (unless you suggest I am posting “trash spam” but that’s a whole other issue).
I couldn’t agree more about building an offense around one player being risky, especially around a running QB. Though, I think you can largely mitigate this by bringing in a player like Q. Gray. They also could have drafted Dennis Dixon or Josh Johnson in this last years draft, but that’s water under the bridge. Another thing to note, all the Titans players are familiar with a pro style offense. So, in the event that VY went down, I don’t think it would be too much brain damage to re-implement that offense mid season.
To your point about implementing a zone read/spread offense; I have to disagree. I hear the same things about speed, tackling angles, etc, but until you run the offense with a “superathlete” like Vince Young, we can’t draw any fair conclusions. I think this is all moot, because no one is going to run this offense in the NFL. But, I think they can do a lot more to help Vince.
Here’s what I know.
1. Vince is a hell of a running threat.
2. VY will never be able to pick apart a defense like Manning or Brady.
If you use 1 to your advantage, though, it makes Vince more dangerous than both Manning and Brady. The reason is, if Vince is a threat to run on every single play, everything operates more efficiently because someone should always be spying Vince and/or the DEs are in contain. This allows larger lanes and less defenders for the backs as well as one less guy in coverage in many situations. Provided that the receivers an use this to their advantage, Vince never needs to be as accurate as the elite pocket passers.
Here’s the problem with worrying too much about injuring Vince: Unless he operates in an offense where he’s on the move and thus risking injury, he’ll never be an elite QB. Plain and simple. So, you either roll the dice and do the most with what you have, or grind it out with a guy that doesn’t fit your system and waste what has the possibility/talent to be one of the greatest players in history.
by SuperHorn on
Sep 9, 2008 1:13 PM CDT
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many good points...
we’ll see how it works out- i just hate that we are even having to have this conversation. btw- i agree with getting a backup with a similar style to him. i like collins, and am glad we have him; but i’ve never understood having a slow footed passing QB back up a quick athletic QB. Same with O’Donnell and McNair….however that combo worked out great as well.
by gotitans27 on
Sep 9, 2008 1:33 PM CDT
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Yup.
Though, in situations like Sunday, it isn’t had to have the option. When opponents gameplan against a mobile quarterback, it makes Kerry’s life much easier when he comes in. That’s why I get frustrated by people calling to put in Kerry as a starter based on what he does when he comes in mid game.
These next few weeks will give us a good indication of how well he can play when a team has a whole week to gameplan against him. My hope is that he lights it up, but history tells a different story…
by SuperHorn on
Sep 9, 2008 1:58 PM CDT
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With our offensive line
Just about any competent QB would have fun against the Bengals – it’s gonna be fun. Too bad VY won’t be able to enjoy the day.
by Cajuncub on Sep 9, 2008 3:10 PM CDT 0 recs














