Open Thread: What Should Our Expectations Be for Vince Young?

by Jimmy on Aug 19, 2008 2:28 PM CDT in News

I did not have a chance to listen to any local sports talk radio yesterday, but if it is anything like this morning, it was a lot of people going back and forth over whether or not Vince Young will ever be a good quarterback or not. Since this is obviously a lightning rod topic, I figured I would open a one-stop discussion place for that on this site.

Facts:

VY is entering his 3rd season as an NFL quarterback.
VY is 17-11 as an NFL starting quarterback.
VY is in his 1st season with a new offensive coordinator.
VY's play has been inconsistent thus far in his career.

So the question remains, What Should Our Expectations Be? How long should it take a quarterback to be successful in the NFL? A lot of people compare VY to Steve McNair. McNair had the benefit of sitting and learning for 2 years before being thrown the offense. McNair took over in 1997, after learning for those 2 seasons, and put up a 70.4 QB rating. VY's was 71.1 last season.

We heard all of this same stuff early in McNair's career. People were calling for Crystal Chandelier and Neil O'Donnell everytime McNair had a bad game. Those calls didn't stop until McNair was the co-MVP in 2003 (McNair's 3rd year in the Heimerdinger offense).

I am not trying to say that VY shouldn't be showing more consistency than he is right now. He should. As long as Jeff Fisher is the coach here, VY isn't going to be called on to win that many games by throwing the ball 50 times. What he is going to be called to do is take care of the football and make plays when the opportunity presents itself. That is what our expectations should be of him. Be a leader and a winnner. Nothing less.

Thoughts and comments welcome..

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Progress

Expecting an all-world season is not reasonable. Progress is what’s important. Here’s what I hope to see:

1. Better TD/INT ratio. Anything above even I can deal with. I’d like to see 17-9 or so.
2. Use of his legs. He wasn’t drafted for his arm. If you take away the threat to run, you’ve taken away what makes him so special. More importantly, it makes everything else work better, especially the running game.
3. Game manager. He needs to play within himself. There are times when the play isn’t there…throw it away and take the three and out.

This season is going to be a learning process for Vince, but I expect great things in the second half of the season. VY is a once in a generation sort of athlete, that happens to also play quarterback. Let’s just hope that translates into success in the NFL…

by SuperHorn on Aug 19, 2008 3:06 PM CDT 0 recs

One more thing to add

A LOT of this is on the coaches. I like what they are doing in the preseason with the pocket passing. That is a skill you have to learn in the NFL, and you’d hate to see him hurt from scrambling in the preseason.

But IMO, his talents aren’t being used to their fullest if they aren’t moving him around during the regular season.

by SuperHorn on Aug 19, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up 0 recs

The Way I See It

It’ll be next season before we see any real advances in consistancy, although I think he will have a better season this year than last.

Don’t forget, the Madden Curse was in effect last season =)

Seriously, if ‘Dinger had been there last year, Vince’s development would be leaps and bounds ahead of where he is now.

He’ll still be better than last year, but how much is anybody’s guess.

by Rustmeister on Aug 19, 2008 3:06 PM CDT 0 recs

VY

I personally think he’s highly over-rated, but the poor guy isn’t going to have much success without a halfway decent target. An old Alge Crumpler can’t turn him into a success.

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by MrNFL on Aug 19, 2008 3:19 PM CDT 0 recs

Trust

I pretty much trust Fisher & Dinger to make the best choice for us to win games.. As long as they make Vince our starting QB then I support him.

Also, last year our offense visted the red zone very often. If we had scored TDs instead of FGs everybody would be raving about Vince.

If we can improve our Red Zone offense alone then we’ll be leaps and bounds better than we were last year.

I think Vince will be better this year. I think people need to have more patience; not just with Vince but with all the skill positions. It’s rare that players become superstars within there 1st three years (except for maybe HB).

by theologic on Aug 19, 2008 3:22 PM CDT 0 recs

If we can improve the Red Zone offense, and just stay even with last year everywhere else

we’ll make a run in the playoffs.

by August West on Aug 19, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

That's right.

Fact is, we’ll never know how good he really can be until we get him a better than average reciever who can seperate himself from defenders, so Vince can be a little off target and still make a completion.

by titanbt53 on Aug 19, 2008 3:23 PM CDT 0 recs

I agree with Super Horn

What we need to see is progress. However im not sure how much will come foward this year. I know its only preseason, but every article about him this off season has been about how Dinger is working on his fundamentals starting with proper foot work. Yet every throw this preseason seems to be thrown off balance, and with poor mechanics. With that in mind I dont think the last game vs. the Raiders is any indication of the VY we will see this year. I think with good play calling using the run to set up the pass and getting VY on the edge on some run pass options should open up his passing game quite a bit.

by MT TITAN-VOL on Aug 19, 2008 3:23 PM CDT 0 recs

Things I want from VY this year:

• a playoff win
• stay healthy enough
• More TDs than INTs.
• a top 2 Sportcenter highlight of the week at least 3 times (if we’re not going to get consistency, I want a damned show!)

That’s about it. VY is my guy, and I support him 100%. I seriously doubt that VY is ever going to be amazingly consistent from week to week, but only about 5 QBs in the league are. Everybody else is on a roller coaster most of the year.

VY can, however, absolutely crush teams when he’s playing well, and he can do things that are transcendent when he’s on. The Titans can when during his bad games with the awesome talent assembled at every position that’s not WR… good god our WRs suck worse than I thought they would so far…

Next year is the deal breaker, I think. That’ll be the year Titans fans (the only fans who matter in this debate, BTW, despite what Houston and Indy folks would have you believe) either buy or sell on him. This year is going to be the whole ~~McNair~~ Young fans vs. ~~O’donnell~~ Collins fans.

by August West on Aug 19, 2008 3:56 PM CDT 0 recs

I would be happy with

As many TDs as Interceptions, at least a ration less than 2 interceptions per TD.

I’d like to see quite a few more TD passes. In the upper teens – give me one a game.

I’d like to see him not get hurt doing something silly.

I’d really really like to see him make a complete ass of Hoge.

by numbertenox on Aug 19, 2008 7:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

You would be happy with...

some pretty pathetic results; certainly nothing to shut Hoge up.

Good passing Quarterbacks throw 4 touchdowns to every interception.

by BeansCarter on Aug 20, 2008 6:16 AM CDT up 0 recs

IT IS TOO EARLY

TO MAKE ANY PREDICTION ON VINCE. WITH THE SIGNING OF CRUMPLER AND DINGER BACK I AM EXPECTING TO SEE SOME OF THE OLD MCNAIR/WYCHECK DAYS WHICH WHERE VERY PRODUCTIVE. MCNAIR DIDNT HAVE THE BEST LONG BALL THAT EVER WAS, BUT WAS VERY PROCUCTIVE WITH SHORT ROUTES AND USING HIS LEGS. I EXPECT THE SAME NOW. EVERYBODY WANTS TO SEE THE LONG BOMBS BUT WINNING THE GAME IS WHAT COUNTS NO MATTER HOW YOU DO IT……… PATIENCE

by coler0kw on Aug 19, 2008 5:32 PM CDT 0 recs

i really, really hope

vince pans out, but i have serious doubt after watching him in the last pre season game.

by vancouverTITAN on Aug 19, 2008 5:36 PM CDT 0 recs

i

hope to see him play more like his first year when he won games by himself. remember the run to win in houston is frist trip back. or when he sliped out of the grasp of the giants to get into the playoffs. i hope to see that vince but for some reason i hanvnt seen him work his majic since his first year. something has changed , i have my ideas, but dont want to get crucified so ill keep it to myself

by dentureboy on Aug 19, 2008 7:09 PM CDT 0 recs

I truly, honestly beleive he IS over rated as a quarterback.

He does have the physical assets that coaches dream of. However I don’t think he can couple his strength with the mentality to do the right thing at the right time consistently. Sometimes it clicks for him and sometimes he looks very inept. I am not going to hide my thoughts about the guy.
He reminds me a bit of a QB named Jamal Lord who played for Nebraska. Lord was a phsyically gifted QB who could really impress with his running and passing skills, (when he was hot) When he was hot, he was unbeleivable, then when he wasn’t hot he gave games away by throwing picks. The consistency just wasn’t there. After his career in Nebraska he went to the Houston Texans as a punt returner, I don’t know if he is still with them.
That scenario happens all the time in all levels of football. Maintaining consistency is incredibly difficult. There are probably about 15 – 20 pro QB that can pull it off, much more than 5 in my book. That is counting starters and backups. Anyhow, will VY make it as the Titans QB. Who knows? I guess this season will be the time for him to shine, or

by Joy Kat on Aug 19, 2008 8:11 PM CDT 0 recs

Give me those 15-20 names

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Aug 19, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

I dunno about 15-20

But: (Not how i’d rank them)

Manning
Brady
Hasselbeck
Palmer
Brees
Warner
McNabb

God im struggling now, it’s hard to pick many more QB’s that have been consistent for at least 3 seasons.

by furrycolt on Aug 19, 2008 8:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

Unless he's including consistenly bad

In which VY would top that :)

by furrycolt on Aug 19, 2008 8:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

Good one

Warner? He has had multiple good seasons, but I would not point to him as an example of consistency.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Aug 19, 2008 8:49 PM CDT up 0 recs

Look at

His last four years, not too many 110+ QB rating games, but not too many 50- games, all his season ratings have been mid eighties.

by furrycolt on Aug 20, 2008 7:08 AM CDT up 0 recs

I think

That these are goals that, should he not achieve them, the Titans should take another QB.

15td’s with 13 int’s
2800+ passing yards
420 attempts 250 completions
80 rushing attempts for 400 yards
No more than 6 fumbles.

If he does all of this, then I can see the Titans just breaking .500 at 9-7.

But go on, flame me! I’m just a know nothing Colts fan!

by furrycolt on Aug 19, 2008 8:21 PM CDT 0 recs

No flaming, just a question

Why would the Titans only go 9-7 with VY’s numbers being that much better than last season?

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Aug 19, 2008 8:46 PM CDT up 0 recs

because

he’s a colts fan.

i think if peyton manning makes another lame commercial the colts should take another quarterback.

but i agree with the 15 / 13 number – in that rough ballpark would be just fine. 30 TD passes? on a Titans team? Vince Young? somebody has been toking something. Vince has 21 TD passes in 2 seasons for heavens sakes. puh-lease. Deciding that’s what he needs to do to have a good season is like buying a hybrid because you really want to have good mileage and then deciding that the only way you’ll continue to be happy with it as a car is if it can go from 0 to 60 in 2 seconds.

Enough TD passes to make our efficiency better than last year inside the 20 and fewer INTs to put less stress on our very good defense, along with his god-given scrambling ability remaining intact is all we need from VY to be much improved this year as a team.

by numbertenox on Aug 19, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

See my comment below

On why I think the Titans will go 9-7

by furrycolt on Aug 19, 2008 9:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

Fair enough

But the losses of Odom and LaBoy (Whom I really hoped the Colts would try and pick up this year) make any gains that the team made during the offseason a push, imo, coupled that with a tough schedule, and its hard to see where more than 9 games can be won.

Jags-L
Bengals-W
Texans-W
Vikings- L
Ravens- L
Chiefs- W
Colts- L
Packers- W
Bears- W
Jags-W (Not sure which game is at home for you guys v the Jags, you get one win at home v then from me)
Jets- W
Lions- W
Browns- L
Texans- W
Steelers- L
Colts-L

by furrycolt on Aug 19, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up 0 recs

Ok you might get 10 wins even

Cos we might throw the last game to you ;) Just so a real playoff contender doesn’t make it.

Pretty much like last year :P

by furrycolt on Aug 19, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yo Mama

I can’t think of a more appropriate response.

by numbertenox on Aug 19, 2008 10:01 PM CDT up 0 recs

Again, I'd buy the win-loss with wins over the Ravens and Browns.

I mean, lose to the Ravens? How? The Titans have probably the best run-defense in football, and the Ravens have a rookie QB. I mean, anything is possible, but that IMHO is a bit of a stretch.

As for the Browns, they’re my pick for most over-rated team in the NFL this year. Add in a split with the Colts (as per furrycolt’s logic) and we’re at 11-5—my prediction all along.

DannoE

Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Aug 20, 2008 6:50 AM CDT up 0 recs

i actually think that's a pretty good bar

my hopes are much higher than that, but realistically i think this is about where he should be. i don’t really care about yards, or even number of TDs, as long as he can keep the ratio reasonable and hold on to the ball a little better.

on the other hand, even if he’s statistically worse than last year, he should get at least a fourth season.

by longtitan on Aug 20, 2008 12:12 AM CDT up 0 recs

I too think furrycolt has reasonable expectations.

More than anything, the turnovers killed the Titans last year. So… if there’s been ANYTHING good about the pre-season, it’s the fact that we haven’t seen that bugaboo back yet (though, I saw at least one pass that SHOULD have been a pick in the Raider’s game).

I also agree with Jimmy. If all else is equal, but VY gets to where furrycolt thinks he ought to be, this is NOT a 9-7 team. Probably 11-5, with one of those wins against the Colts. Because, look, it’s a run-first team, and it always will be. And the run-game has looked GREAT so far.

DannoE

Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Aug 20, 2008 6:46 AM CDT up 0 recs

30 TDs

That’s the “breakeven point” for VY in my mind for him to score, whether it be through the air or on the ground, to have what I would call a good season. A season that represents actual progression toward the stardom he achieved in college.

I don’t think a playoff victory is a necessity, but I do think the Titans will succeed in the playoffs this year assuming no catastrophic injuries to key players. If VY has hit the 30 number by the end of the year, the Titans will be 11-5 or better and might even steal the AFC South crown back this year. Too tough to tell what might happen in the playoffs, though.

At the end of the day, you know a guy like Vince Young will win a Super Bowl in his career. It’s just a matter of when.

by TitansFisher7 on Aug 19, 2008 9:05 PM CDT 0 recs

No

Just no

by furrycolt on Aug 19, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up 0 recs

If VY has 30 TD passes this season

I will win a million dollars in the lottery and the Titans will be 16-0. I love the positive thinking, but if he throws half that many touchdowns and about 6 fewer interceptions than last year we could be 11-5 and up over the Colts in the division.

by numbertenox on Aug 19, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up 0 recs

This type of trash is why don't I post on here.

And for the record, if the Titans actually lose to the Ravens, they suck as much as you apparently do. How in the hell does someone make 15 posts on this site in a day?

by TitansFisher7 on Aug 19, 2008 9:52 PM CDT 0 recs

Please continue to post

We need all the help we can get against the Colts people

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Aug 19, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up 0 recs

I don't know why any Colts fan would be running their mouth

especially in a Titans forum.

The Colts will have dodged a bullet if Peyton actually comes back at 100%, and then stays there all year. If he plays well, they win 12 games. If he doesn’t, they win 10 and sneak into the playoffs.

Another 28 posts from furrycolts or anyone else isn’t going to change the uncertainty surrounding the Colts this year, different from the past couple years.

By the way, somebody else in this thread apparently didn’t see I meant 30 TDs running or passing. 7 rushing TDs is not out of the question for VY one bit, and maybe as high as 9, so 21-23 passing TDs is really where he needs to get passing-wise to be at the magic 30 mark.

OK, I’m done. But I’ll keep posting. This is a great site, despite the trolls.

by TitansFisher7 on Aug 19, 2008 10:04 PM CDT 0 recs

ah ok

if you mean running + passing that is a different thing. I still thing 30 combined is higher than we need though. The rushing attack is going to be better this year than last (possibly the best in the league), and the defense is going to continue to be dangerous.

by numbertenox on Aug 19, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up 0 recs