Tennessee Titans Wide Receiver Debate
by Jimmy on Mar 11, 2008 12:01 PM CDT
in Tennessee Titans News
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PrintEveryone always throws out there that the Titans need to get a #1 receiver. It is debatable if the Titans have ever had a true #1 receiver. Derrick Mason had a couple of 90+ catch seasons, but I don't think he was ever the game-changer that you think of when you think of a #1 receiver. My question is how many #1 receivers are there in the league? Here are the guys I have come up with that are #1 receivers (in no particular order):
1. Randy Moss
2. Terrell Owens
3. Steve Smith
4. Chad Johnson
5. T.J. Houshmandzadeh
6. Braylon Edwards
7. Andre Johnson
8. Marvin Harrison (assuming he is healthy)
9. Reggie Wayne
10. Plaxico Burress
11. Roy Williams
12. Joey Galloway (?)
13. Larry Fitzgerald
14. Tory Holt
There are 32 NFL teams, and only 14 #1 receivers by my count. Are there countless guys in the NFL that would be upgrades to the Titans roster? Yes, but I think they would be stupid Bernard Berrian $16 million guaranteed. You don't want to tie up that kind of money in a guy that isn't that good, because even though he would be an upgrade from what the Titans have now, he doesn't make them a Super Bowl contender, and he would end up hurting them down the road because of all the money that was tied up in him. The same can be said about Donte Stallworth. Giving him $10 million guaranteed upgrades your team, but it doesn't make you better than the Patriots. That is why I don't think anyone should be upset that the Titans didn't make a bigger play for these guys.
Now trading for a receiver is a different argument. What if the Arizona Cardinals came to the Titans and said they would be willing to part with Fitzgerald for a first and second round draft pick in this year's draft. The Titans would be insane to not make that deal. While Berrian and Stallworth don't make the Titans a Super Bowl contender, Fitzgerald absolutely would. Draft picks are so over-valued in the NFL these days. Look at what the Titans have added in the first and second round in the last 3 seasons:
2005- #32, Michael Roos
2006- Vince Young, LenDale White
2007- Michael Griffin, Chris Henry
How many of those guys would you not give up to get Fitzgerald? My answer is Vince Young. That is the only one, and I love Roos and Griffin. Sure you would have to take on Fitzgerald's salary, but would you rather pay him $20-25 million guaranteed or Berrian $16 million. That is a no brainer.
Now I have no idea what the Cardinals are asking for Fitzgerald, or if he is even available, but if I am the Titans' GM I am calling them every day with a new offer to try and get him away. There probably isn't a #1 receiver in this draft, and even if there is it would take a couple of years for that guy to get there. It is dumb to put all your eggs in that basket.
Bottom line: I am not upset that the Titans let any of the guys in free agency go elsewhere. I will be upset though if they aren't making a push to get a guy that might be available.
Thoughts....
Update [2008-3-11 14:29:3 by Jimmy]: The Cardinals must have read what I wrote and got scared.
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uuuggghhhh
"According to an announcement posted on what appears to be his personal web site, Cardinals receiver Larry Fitzgerald has agreed to a four-year, $40 million contract with the team.
Fitzgerald's site says that he'll get $30 million guaranteed, and $33 million over the next three years."
- from PFT http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
Looks like it's gonna be the draft for our WR fix(es).
Jimmy!
How awesome would that be.
One last shot -
by TrenchantTitan on Mar 11, 2008 12:50 PM CDT reply actions
Word was
Now I do have some beefs with your #1 WR list. There are 2 #1 WRs in Arizona. Don't believe me go look up their stats. Boldin is one of the best WRs in the league, and most underrated.
I would also put these players in the #1 category
M.Colston- no doubt in his 2 seasons he has been a game changer.
D.Driver-5 of his last 6 years has put up over 1,000yds.
B.Marshall-was unstoppable this season.
These players have to be included if you include B.Edwards and R.Williams. I also think that L.Coles and L.Evans are #1 caliber and their numbers are held down by their teams horrid QB play. And I'd say Greg Jennings is on the verge.
So I count 20.
by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 11, 2008 12:59 PM CDT reply actions
20 still isn't 32....
I will just say
by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 11, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
You guys are gonna be disappointed.
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Thanks!
i know it's a new GM, but...
You can't draft one 24th!
We draft for the future, but it won't help anytime soon. Don't think Paul Williams from last year is ready to make a splash either... Biren Ealy? Could that be the guy?
I bet Vince would like to punch Reinfeldt in the head right about now.
Hey Pinoy!
Yeah, we're ok.
More than 200 cars damaged in one freaking accident. It was a like a scene from an action film. It's crazy how people drive here even in heavy fog conditions.
just for kicks...
Y'know, there is a body of evidence out there...
Here's one:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/376861/which_football_position_is_the_most.html
And my favoritem from Slate.com:
http://www.slate.com/id/2173817/
I'm just saying... I think D-Line help is more important.
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Thanks!
Exerpt:
They are the loudest players on the roster, always insisting on the damn ball. But in the grand scheme, a team with a great quarterback but average receivers is in much better shape than the reverse--witness the Patriots last year. I'd also argue that the best linemen and defenders have much more impact than the top receivers--they simply don't have stats that quantify that impact. Call it the fantasy football effect: Like the best running backs, big-time receivers get money and status far in excess of their effect on the final score. (I'd place receiving tight ends, like Antonio Gates, Dallas Clark, and Tony Gonzalez, in with this group as well--they're valuable downfield threats, but they are rarely called upon to block and struggle to do so effectively.)"
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Thanks!
sorry but...
maybe you don't need dominating WR play, but our corps is a flat out joke. the pats start 3 WR's that would be our #1 guy, by a long shot. same for indy. same for cincy. same for the giants. im sure there are others. we aren't talking about a "not strong" group of receivers, we are talking about a group that is barely NFL caliber, and it showed every single game.
I think we all would agree..
Before we start flying off the handle, let's see how things play out. There are rumblings on other message boards about trades.
Otherwise, be patient. Pay for someone who is worth it. IE. Roy Williams in one year. Overpaying for someone in free agency can ruin a team in terms of cap space down the road...
Let me throw some stats at this for clarification
Year Name G Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Long TD
2007 Jevon Walker 8 26 287 11.0 35.9 24 0
2007 Bernard Ber. 16 71 951 13.4 59.4 59 5
2007 Donte Stall. 16 46 697 15.2 43.6 69 3
2007 Roydell Will. 16 55 719 13.1 44.9 48 4
2007 Justin Gage 16 55 750 13.6 46.9 73 2
Jevon Walker - 6 years $55 Mil
Bernard Berrian - 6 years $42 Mil
Donte Stallworth - 7 years $35 Mil
Justin Gage - 4 years $14 Mil
I agree....
100% Agree
no way
a "big play" wide receiver would change the look of this offense over night. defenses have a way easier time when the safeties can line up 15-20 yards deep and never worry about getting beat long. our running game might even improve more than the passing game once we force teams to respect a deep threat. facing 8-9 guys "in the box" every down just makes it that much harder than when the safeties have to play honest and take a few more steps back.
I certainly don't want to see us over pay for someone who is a #1 pretender (javon walker, berrian, stallworth) but a trade featuring our "rainmaker" and some choice draft picks might be enough to pull away someone pretty talented, perhaps around draft day. otherwise, there is always a pool of high priced players that get freed up in the summer when the cap and roster cuts are made.
Can someone
This is the same dang arguement that was going on last year and correct me if I'm wrong, Our current WR corps out performed any of those "have to draft guys"
Until the Titans FO really blows a signing lay off them! MR has yet to be proven wrong!!!
Don't get me wrong
by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 11, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
mike rucker
also, the more i look into dustin keller (purdue TE), the more i think he would be a great addition.
Need to do more research
A solid DT would be better, given the personnel we have. If you had Haynesworth and another stud in the middle, two things can happen on a given play
a) One of them is in single coverage while the other is doubled by the center/guard.
b) You are forced to double them both (center/guard and guard/tackle) leaving a DE vs. TE matchup for either KVB or Jevon Kearse.
Another solid DT in the line would make this team a lot more dangerous and less schizophrenic when Haynesworth is in/out. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a solid option available.
I know I'll sound like a homer, but if someone can motivate Frank Okam, he could be a serious steal in the mid rounds of the draft.
I will say this then
And if they aren't, go DE.
by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 11, 2008 4:34 PM CDT reply actions
WRS
by Griffinator on Mar 11, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Real cheap!
by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 11, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
The sleeper-type guys are the whole point...
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Thanks!
20 out of 32
I think they'll pick up at least two more WRs - one during FA and one during draft. Hopefully one of those guys has raw speed - that's a specific attribute they need at WR - a guy that can get open downfield quickly. Also the time for that is right with Dinger back.
Also, I think they just need more (or better) practice. While there were a fair number of drops last year, there were also plenty of plays that looked busted - WRs and QB not on same page at all.
i
norm chow used vince as a pocket passer and hes not. i remember him throwing the ball way down field and kind of cringing cus i knew it was going to be picked off or it was off target by a mile. some of the lack of points has todo with vinces play also along with chow play calling and lack of motivating these guys. also the recivers didnt help us any.
so its a combonation of things as to why we only scored 9 tds last year. a reciver would be good in the first round but i dont think if we get some big name reciver in free agency we are suddenly going to score tons more points we wont, so why waste big money on one?
if we stick to the recivers we have now i know we will score twice the number or maybe even 3 times the number of tds we scored last year. it was a freak event only scoring that many points. just like 4 or 5 years ago when everybody was hurt. same thing a freak event. get a good reciver with the number one pick and hope for the best with him.
not a chow fan
then we slept through free agency.
then we ignored WR early in the draft.
then we went into the season with virtually no improvement at the position, and our passing offense and scoring sucked.
i just don't see how we can afford to make that mistake twice in a row. gotta support the franchise, and the franchise IS vince young.
Last year and this year
And, I agree that Chow was a bum and think that played a HUGE role in the poor passing game.
In response to sleeping through free agency and ignoring WR early in the draft; out of those free agents/draftees who made an immediate impact? I can think of two: Randy Moss and Dwayne Bowe. Randy wanted a shot at a Superbowl. As far as I'm concerned, the Patriots may have been the only team with a chance at him. Dwayne has played very well in Kansas City, but pre draft I remember most people wanting Robert Meachem. Also, look at Tennessee's track record at drafting WR's...it doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy feeling. Wide receivers in the draft are a crap shoot. Without doing any research, I'd gander that Justin Gage is more productive than the majority of 1st round Wide Receivers taken in the last five years. Build your team around guys like this, keep available cap room, and then tie up a guy like Roy Williams or Chad Johnson when the opportunity presents itself.
Here's a question for you...who do you think we passed on in FA last year that we should have picked up? I haven't included the draft in this question because if any of us had that kind of insight to pick the gems in the draft, we'd probably be swimming in a pool of money instead of arguing about Front Office decisions on this blog...
we had more
yes chemistry will improve our passing game, but not nearly as much as gage and williams seeing #2 and #3 cover instead of one of them getting blanketed by any teams best corner and the other being average.
adding someone who can draw AND handle the tough coverage will have a much bigger effect on those 2 guys' production that 1 offseason.
just as a counter example, last offseason the pats bought an entire receiving corps, and they had gaffney before that, who is better and more proven than anyone we have currently. faced with the same issue (poverty at WR) the pats spent the money and Brady turns in the best statistical season at QB ever. coincidence? hell no.
even a super bowl winning QB is only as good as his targets. IMO, it's even MORE important for a "young" QB like ours. any of those 3 guys would have been an upgrade for this team.
definitely agree about the draft, as i said on here earlier, i trust the front office about zero at that position.
also, it's far to early to judge last years draft class, because almost no one comes up huge their rookie year. (yet another reason we need a proven guy instead of a drafted guy)
as far as last offseason goes, we didn't draft a WR early, didn't trade up. i really don't care why they didn't get it done, the bottom line is it was a glaring need and we never addressed it-draft or free agency (in fact it got worse when we let bennet go, granted the rams overpaid). so when a weakness gets weaker, and you ignore it and have to watch a season of some of the worst passing offense in the NFL, then we again do nothing in free agency... see where this is going? how can you expect improvement with out making any improvements. depending on gage and williams to suddenly become what they are not (a top tier receiving threat) seems like a pretty poor strategy.
you mean to say we couldn't find something better than what we have now ANYWHERE else at a decent price? no other teams in the league seem to have that problem, at least not as bad as we do. find a team with a more lackluster group of receivers than ours, i would love to know who it is.
No quick fixes
That is exactly what I am saying. Here is what I think...It's easy as a fan to sit here and get frustrated about the Front Office's lack of activity. WR is clearly a GLARING need. The problem is that guys like Randy Moss/TO/Ocho Cinco/ etc aren't just sitting around in Free Agency. There aren't any upgrades in Free Agency at the right price. You can over pay for the guys I mentioned in a post above, but check the stats...it just doesn't make sense. Then, you've blown your wad and when a true stud is available we can't pay.
Note that this offseason isn't over yet, and Fisher has been vocal that he recognizes the lack of receiving weapons around Vince. I think we need to wait until after the draft before we start pointing fingers.
I digress. Back to the question...What do you think the front office should have done differently last year and this year? Get specific with names, etc. I think you'll find that were no quick fixes.
any improvement is better than no improvement
what team DOESN'T have better receivers than the titans? how many teams have 2 or even 3 guys better than what we have and have had for the last few years? it is a recurring problem with this organization.
all i'm saying is, last year we blew it, clearly, with only having 9 passing td's. that's gotta be the lowest total for a playoff team in years and years. so far, no improvement. am i getting antsy? probably. but my eyes can't take another year of what occurred when the defense wasn't on the field.
As for your question:
check out
http://www.fantasyfootballstarters.com/wtw_07FAWR.jsp
notice where moulds and gage fall on the list. i think that proves the point that some sort of upgrade, even if it wasn't a HOF'er, was certainly available
Dwayne Blakley
by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 12, 2008 8:49 AM CDT reply actions
If we're rehashing old practice squad TEs...
Plus, every team needs a huge guy with a name like Guenther (accent preferable, but we'll take it).
Jimmy can you
I know we usually ask when we want something polled, just thought it would be cool. This week could be, should we draft DE or WR in the 1st Rd?
Thanks
by Big Bad Bulluck on Mar 12, 2008 12:17 PM CDT reply actions
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