VY's Performance - Some Perspective
by SuperHorn on Dec 29, 2008 10:26 AM CST
25 comments
For all the talk of VY's poor play, let's take a look at the numbers:
Kerry Collins (Season Stats) -
58.3% completion percentage
6.4 Y/A
QB rating of 80.2
12 TDs 7 INTs; or .8 TDs .46 INTs per game
Vince Young (Colts Game Stats) -
69.2% completion percentage
4.2 Y/A
QB rating of 77.4
0 TDs 0 INTs
Kerry has played basically 15 full games this year. I'm not including the 1st Jags game and final Colt's game. In those 15 games, he's had a QB rating higher than Vince's 7 times, lower 7 times, and basically equal 1 time (First Indy game; 77.9).
For all the praise of Kerry being a game manager, we should notice that Vince played the exact same role yesterday. He wasn't the risk taker we're used to seeing. It was dinky passes all day with the exception of the one down the field to Scaife on the first drive. It is clear, at least in my eyes, that Vince executed the gameplan that the coaches wanted. It doesn't excuse the misthrows to Scaife. But, the coaching staff wanted to see a game manager, and that's what they got.
From The Tennessean (emphasis mine):
"Vince appreciated the opportunity,'' Fisher said. "He appreciated the chance to prepare this week and play. We'll have to look at the tape, but I thought he made some real good throws.
"He was under a little bit of pressure but he moved the ball at times. We probably could have put him in a better position to make some plays, but he had fun and that is what we planned on happening.''
I'm not here to be a cheerleader for Vince, at least not in this case. He didn't look good yesterday, and I think an imporant stat from above is the difference in Y/A between the two quarterbacks. But, again, a lot of that is coming down from the coaching staff.
From The City Paper (emphasis mine):
“I just wanted to be loose. I told the guys earlier that my body feels real good,” Young said. “I told the guys earlier that I didn’t want to force anything and throw any interceptions, so I was checking the ball down and using my legs. Overall, I thought I did a pretty good job of getting the ball out and moving around. We didn’t really have too much in the offense today, but I think I did all right just to get back in my rhythm.”
I suspect that he's regurgitating what came down from the coaching staff. We saw it on the field. Check down. Don't go for the big play. Let's just get through this game in one piece.
Based on the results of the rest of the game, it's apparent that Vince was told not to throw across the middle anymore after the throw to Scaife that could have allowed a defender to lay the wood. The logic makes sense. Don't injure your starting TE on a pass over the middle for a meaningless game.
What's interesting is that despite all this, his stats aren't much worse than Kerry's. No one could know for sure where this team would be with VY at the helm, but yesterday didn't show that Kerry was vastly superior. Far from it. On paper, they looked remarkably similar, (read average, not prone to turnovers). Untie Vince's hands and put CJ next to him, and we might be having a different discussion altogether (for better or worse).
So, with all this in mind Titans fans, take a deep breath. Vince didn't look good, but let's have a little perspective here. It was the hand he was dealt, and with the exception of the bad throws to Scaife, the comments following the game indicate that he did exactly what the coaching staff wanted him to. At the end of the day, this game tells us nothing. Regardless of the results of the postseason, I think we still have a QB controversy on our hands going into next season...
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I don't think those stats show much of anything....
it’s not fair to compare 1 season to less than a half of football. A better comparison would be to look at see what Collins did against the Colts earlier this year. However, I’m too lazy to do that. Young did make a very nice pass to Jones.
by gotitans27 on Dec 29, 2008 10:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Colt's earlier in the year
Kerry has played basically 15 full games this year. I’m not including the 1st Jags game and final Colt’s game. In those 15 games, he’s had a QB rating higher than Vince’s 7 times, lower 7 times, and basically equal 1 time (First Indy game; 77.9).
24/37 64.9 % Completion 193 Yards 5.2 Y/A 0 TDs 0 INTs
by SuperHorn on Dec 29, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Titans dont pay Kerry what we pay VInce
by DonFrancisco on Dec 29, 2008 11:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Checkdowns and Runs!
VY is the perfect QB for 3rd and short, so he’s almost perfect for the Titans gameplan.
Run on first down
Run on 2nd down.
3rd and short either run, let VY get the 1st with his legs, or let VY throw a checkdown.
The only problem is when we can’t run the ball. Can VY convert a 3rd and long?
Or course, you could argue that is Vince can run for 5 yards everytime he scampers then we wouldn’t ever be in 3rd and long.
Anyway… I would like to see more. I think a running QB is perfect for our offense.
by theologic on Dec 29, 2008 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm honestly not trying to antagonize you, Superhorn. You seem like a good guy. But...
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/11195441
"The thing is, Young displays enough pieces of an NFL quarterback to fool you. He’s almost an impressionist piece of art, completely open to interpretation, and there are undoubtedly lots of people who were impressed Sunday with the way he juked Colts defensive tackle Raheem Brock before scrambling for seven yards. Or with the way he completed his last five passes of the game. "
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 29, 2008 11:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure where you're going with this.
For the record, I wasn’t impressed with Vince. At all. I thought he played poorly. It’s important to take that performance in the correct context, though.
I won’t point everything out, because I’ve done some of that above and in other threads, but I will restate the most important point one more time:
The guy is without the star running back that would make the team so dangerous. I can’t emphasize that enough. Having to defend both CJ and VY changes the dynamic of the game altogether. Lendale poses zero threat in the gun. It’s not what he’s meant to do. It basically allows for an extra defender to either spy Vince or drop into coverage. Chris Johnson was built to run the zone read. And, you can be guaranteed that the Titans saw that potential when they drafted him. See Steve Slaton at West Virginia. Rashard Mendenhall at Illinois. You need that speed to the edge in order to keep the defense accountable; Chris Johnson has that, Lendale doesn’t.
Maybe you’ve seen enough. I think that’s a knee jerk reaction, but it’s certainly one you’re entitled to. I, on the other hand, need to see at least a few games with an entire gameplan for Vince designed by Heimerdinger, a full week of practice, and CJ in the backfield.
Another interesting tidbit. CJ’s YPC in the first Jags game with Vince in: 6.2. 2nd game w/o Vince: 3.8. That’s against a defense that ranks 13th against the rush per FO. He’s ranked above that in YPC only three other times against the Chiefs, Lions, and Browns which rank 27th, 32nd, and 22nd against the run, respectively. Just sayin’…
by SuperHorn on Dec 29, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Before the game....
Vince was saying he was excited about the opportunity and that this game would be his “resume”. If his last game performance was his resume, I want to stomp on it like a terrible towel. He was inconsistent and indecisive for the most part. But I saw some flashes of brilliance also. Which one is the real Vince Young?
I still have faith. Let’s see on his next resume.
Go Titans!
by Pinoy Titan on Dec 29, 2008 11:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
much ado about nothing
vince was mediocre, but there were too many differences to really gauge his progress. he’s an emotional qb and he feeds off of his own confidence more than most qbs and his confidence fluctuates more than most qbs, so its hard judge him based on this one game.
anyways, the thing that worries me most is that i wish he had a good game to get his confidence up for the playoffs. playoff football is a whole new level of intensity and it’d be nice to know that there was a confident vy on the sidelines ready to step in if collins were to go down.
by rolypoly32 on Dec 29, 2008 1:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sample size
He didn’t show the ability to complete a long pass yesterday, although he did show some willingness to run. Bottom line: the field shrinks with Vince out there. Checkdown, run, checkdown, run.
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Dec 29, 2008 1:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Justin Gage
He didn’t play yesterday. He’s our only quasi deep threat. Gage’s YPC is 19.1. Next closest? JMac – 13.7. That’s a HUGE gap.
And, again, CHRIS JOHNSON DID NOT PLAY. Just his presence on the field opens up the pass because safeties and linebackers must know where he is at all times. IMO, CJ is the xfactor this year. Not Kerry. It doesn’t hurt that Chow is gone, either.
by SuperHorn on Dec 29, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good post, SuperHorn
I think people simply overreacted to the game way too much. I for one didn’t expect anything snazzy at all from Vince or anyone else from Tennessee for that matter. I understand Titans fans want to see a great flash of the future, but in a meaningless game in which the coaches didn’t seem like they were trying to win, it’s a bit much to expect.
He could have made better throws, but he ran the ball decently well and like you said, it seemed he did what the coaches asked. It’s a bit foolish to blame a QB for throwing dink and dunk passes when he’s more or less instructed to. This of course doesn’t mean Vince is the next great thing; it just means that people should take a deep breath, take a step back, and let the QB thing resolve itself in next year’s offseason and preseason.
by TheElusiveShadow on Dec 29, 2008 4:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone know if Chris Johnson played yesterday?
Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.
by Jimmy on Dec 29, 2008 4:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
ask superhorn
The Official Enforcer of MCM
by hal41605 on Dec 29, 2008 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
Just trying to get the point home. I mean, people expect the offense to continue to hum in the absence of our star running back who also happens to be the fastest man in the NFL. It’s rubbish.
by SuperHorn on Dec 29, 2008 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and no
CHRIS JOHNSON DID NOT PLAY YESTERDAY!
by SuperHorn on Dec 29, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how long are we supposed to wait for vince to pan out?
its his third year in the league…
by vancouverTITAN on Dec 29, 2008 9:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
As I said in another thread
Aaron Rodgers took three years, and he’s turned out fine.
Look, this has been a mess this season, and Vince certainly had some growing pains last season ( how much of that was due to Chow remains to be seen), but it wasn’t long ago that he sparked this team from an 0-5 start to the verge of the playoffs. He inspired fans and teammates. It’s anyones guess if we’ll see that dynamic, uber-competitive player again, but there is no denying that he played a large part in giving this team a confidence that continued into the 2007 season. They continued to build on that, and here we are today. It’s a different team, but this team started winning with him.
So, to your question, I can’t answer that for you. At least consider, though, what he did for this team only 2 years ago and the impact it has had on this franchise…
by SuperHorn on Dec 29, 2008 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
for me, 3 years should be the point when a franchise makes a decision
its very rare for a quarterback to pan out after that. when it happens, its always with another team (tommy maddox, rich gannon, brad johnson, vinny testeverde…)
don’t get me wrong, i want it to work out for Vince and I want it to be here, but we really need to look at drafting a guy this year or signing a free agent. anyone who thinks kerry collins is the reason why we won 13 games this year is a fool. our stud offensive line is the only reason he hasn’t been on his ass every play. on another thread there was a conversation about pennington and how well he has been playing this year for miami. if a player like pennington pops up this offseason, we need to snag him. if not, we should draft somebody and create some healthy competition.
by vancouverTITAN on Dec 29, 2008 11:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm fine with that
Coming from a UT fan, I wish it were a year later. Given how accurate Colt McCoy has been, I’m not convinced he won’t succeed at the next level. He’d be worth taking a flyer on in the later rounds…
by SuperHorn on Dec 30, 2008 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i like colt as well...
and the dude from texas tech. he’ll be there in the 4th round. chase daniel reminds me of jeff garcia….
by vancouverTITAN on Dec 30, 2008 8:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Chase Daniels ????
He is NOT an NFL quarterback in my book. He is short and he plays poor when under pressure. I watched him play in person this year against the Huskers. He played fairly well, but then the Huskers defense is horrible. I watched him play other games that mattered and he doesn’t do well when it really matters.
VY played the way he did last year. He was up against 2nd stringers with a limited offense. IT is really difficult to judge his performance based on Sunday’s game. He did not play as well as Sorgi did. I am NOT a fan of Sorgi, but I thought he played decent in leading his team to the win THe game meant nothing to me. The TItans were not trying to win it. Fisher did right by his team, not getting the starters hurt. Mike Tomlin should have taken notes from Fisher.
Collins will play well in the first playoff game next weekend . He wants this as bad as anyone being in the League 14 years and no ring on his finger. Go TITANS !
Joy Kat
by Joy kat on Dec 31, 2008 9:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you on Chase Daniel
And I’m not thrilled with his mechanics. The kid is always flat footed.
Graham Harrell has been accurate, but I’m not sold that he has what it takes to be an NFL QB. I can’t put my finger on it, but something isn’t there. Also, there hasn’t been a successful NFL QB come out of Tech under Mike Leach.
I also agree with your assessment of Vince. He didn’t play well, but I don’t think we can really take much from that game.
by SuperHorn on Dec 31, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
mechanics?
umm…vince isn’t exactly textbook.
anyways, i hope we give vince another year especially since he can get another offseason with dinger.
also chase daniels does remind me of jeff garcia, but i would guess he’s going to be a bad pro.
by rolypoly32 on Jan 1, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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