I sent the following note to David Climer...
by DannoE on Dec 19, 2008 9:10 AM CST
27 comments
... in reference to this morning's article, titled "Titans shouldn't turn to Young unless necessary."
Mr. Climer:
I don't understand why you think Collins is playing better than VY would have in the same spots. I grant you that he was better in the first half of the season than Young was for most of last season, but the numbers since the second Jags game tell a completely different story:
Collins since the 2nd Jaguars game: 61 of 113 (54%) for 706 yards with 3 touchdowns, 3 interceptions and 2 fumbles
Vince Young in weeks 12-15 last season: 69 of 109 (63%) for 806 yards with 4 touchdowns, 4 interceptions and 2 fumbles
And that's with Norm Chow calling the plays and the mighty Chris Brown in the backfield. And against MUCH tougher competition. And more to the point, I think Collins is about 6-for-60 on third down conversions in the last month and a half against any team that is not the Detroit Lions. More than anything, that's what has killed the Offense.
Look, seriously, I would ask that you consider the following: VY was successful until teams got enough tape to study. Then they developed a way to defend against him, and he struggled. And then Kerry Collins was successful--right up until teams, even bad defensive teams like the Texans--got enough tape to study him. And now he's struggling. So the problem isn't the quarterback. In fact, they are nearly identical in effectiveness. The problem is that the Offense is predictable to a ridiculous degree. But that is exacerbated by the fact that the QBs are both highly mediocre, and the wide receivers either cannot or will not get separation.
I personally think that the Titans won't win another game this season, but the idea that they shouldn't make some changes to at least TRY is not sound in any way.
Thanks to Jimmy for what passes for stats in this note.
My $.02 is that Climer is a uselessly negative guy whose negativity unfortunately infects the entire Tennessean staff, and I'm happy that I finally got a chance to take a shot at him. And while I applaud his willingness to not cheer mindlessly for the home team, his inability to back his assertions with anything that even closely resembles research not only takes away from his talking points, it makes a mockery of his entire staff. In short, he is my least favorite sports writer; I think he's the Justin McCariens of Southern sports coverage.
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I've softened on Climer this year
but he’s very annoying still… he takes his ’I’m the guy who stirs the pot’ role with a little more glee than logic. He was the worst back when we where really good; always dooming and glooming for absolutely no reason.
Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.
by August West on Dec 19, 2008 9:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Part of the demise of the printed media
In ten years, there won’t be any newspapers to speak of. The electronic media has just about taken over. In the interim, you have the remnants of the once proud profession taken over by folks such as Climer who will work for shrinking wage offered to such folks. Climer has long been a hack as he has little substantial to say; he has to get attention somehow, someway. Good post DannonE.
by Cajuncub on Dec 19, 2008 10:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The decline of print media is a sad thing.
For example, I’ve finally decided to let my subscription to Newsweek lapse—after 13 years. But the quality of the magazine has fallen through the floor.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 19, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me know what condescending note
he sends back
Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles even though gramsey hates it.
by Jimmy on Dec 19, 2008 10:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
sounds like a man who has gotten one of those before!
Where I was raised 2 + 2 = 3rd and 6.
by August West on Dec 19, 2008 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not going to respond.
He’ll meet me with a stony, condescending silence.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 19, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like Climer-Probably not a good idea for me to post this...
but I do agree with him in this article. I acknowledge that Collins has been mediocre for the last half of the season. I also acknowledge that his passing stats are not any better than Vince’s season last year.
There are some differences…
1. Kerry doesnt take sacks(at least this year). A lot is made of VY’s mobility, but he took 25 sacks last year and rarely took advantage of his running abiliy to gain yards
2. Kerry doesnt pout when he makes a mistake
3. Kerry doesnt try to take himself out of a game
In crunch time, do we really want to go to the QB who tried to stay on the sidelines in week 1?
I am not afraid of change and think it MIGHT be warranted IF Collins continues to struggle (he will struggle Sunday…most people have against P’burgh), but am not willing to change right now.
Plus, I thought Climer’s article was more saying “Don’t expect a change now. Look at Fisher’s and Heimerdinger’s track record.” rather than saying “VY shouldn’t play”
by DonFrancisco on Dec 19, 2008 12:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That's not a bad point, especially about the sacks.
I still think it’s as much a function of tape-study as anything else, but I see your point. But his last line, in reference to the idea that VY might have to play, was telling. He said, basically, that we should hope he doesn’t.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 19, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also, the o-line is a fortress this year
KC gets rid of the ball really quickly, which helps, but vince definitely wasn’t playing behind an o-line that dominated pass protection like they do this year.
The Official Enforcer of MCM
by hal41605 on Dec 19, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It is, but I think that it's at least in part a function of KC's play.
They know where he is, and that is helping.
That said, even with the insanity out of the first game, I still wish we could have seen how much Vince grew—or failed to grow—this season. Watching Collins’s game start fast and regress has been depressing in the extreme, but he doesn’t have upside.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 19, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather see VY in there next season
but only with a reasonably adult attitude.
This season, though, I think you give Kerry a little more rope and see if he hangs himself or rebounds some. Dance with who brung ya.
by numbertenox on Dec 19, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i still hate how it continues to be an "either/or" discussion
they are two completely different players, theres GOT to be a way to use them both
The Official Enforcer of MCM
by hal41605 on Dec 19, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
I wouldn’t mind seeing that either – maybe they’re sneakier-er than us and will trot him out in the playoffs some. I doubt it, though. Titans personality is conservative. My guess would be the only way we see VY this year is if Kerry plays very badly.
by numbertenox on Dec 19, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine, until you start 12-1, and then lose all the rest of your games.
But if that’s what’s coming, then more experimentation is warranted.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 19, 2008 6:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who lost the rest of the games?
Season’s not over DannoE.
Have faith.
by BeansCarter on Dec 20, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bah!
Faith is, by definition, belief in the absence of reason.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 20, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh. Sorry about that.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 20, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone see Sunday Morning Quarterbacks this morning in the Tennessean?
Climer referred to people who send him emails who think Vince Young should be back on the field
>> CLIMER: Nope. I keep getting e-mail from fans who want to see V.Y. back on the field. Some think Collins has run out of gas and that it’s time to hand the keys back to Vince. Others suggest that the Titans come up with a few gadget plays for Young to run. But I don’t think that’s Jeff Fisher’s style, and I know Mike Heimerdinger isn’t big on running stuff like the Wildcat formation the Dolphins are using. This is still Kerry Collins’ team — as it should be.
heres the link http://tennessean.com/article/20081221/SPORTS01/812210348/1027
by thawardasa on Dec 21, 2008 9:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I saw that.
Granted, KC is playing better today than he did last week, so I suppose I’m happy enough.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 21, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is where the loss of KVB and AH hurts
The backups are playing lights out, but the depth would help right now…
by SuperHorn on Dec 21, 2008 1:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
PB's response to Jimmy's article:
http://www.burntorangenation.com/2008/12/21/698862/kerry-collins-vs-vince-you
Excerpt:
So when I see Titans fans set up this false dichotomy of “Collins, the guy who got us to 10-0” versus “Vince Young, the guy who didn’t,” I shake my head. And not because I think Vince Young capable of dominating the National Football League. Not at all… My head shakes because that thinking nmisassigns a cause (Collins being adequate) to an effect (the Titans’ strength in 2008).
…
First, Jeff Fisher, MCM, and other Titans fans in the same boat have to dig a lot deeper in analyzing Collins’ role in this team to have the right foundational framework to make decisions going forward. I’m all for giving Kerry Collins an enormous amount of credit for stepping in and masterfully providing the kind of steady adequacy this team needed to get off to the start that it did. But that cannot be confused for something more than it is/has been. Collins is today who he has been all year: A steady, good-not-great game manager who can adequately help other elements of a very strong team shine.
Second, and more importantly, understanding the preceding point demands — in my view — not just an understanding of what Has Been but what the Best Titans Offensive Team might look like heading forward. In my view, that means an aggressive approach to offensive improvement that includes getting Vince Young involved with this football team. Though there exists room for healthy debate as to whether that be in a limited role (on specially designed sets) or a more robust one (in which he provides Collins-level adequacy but infinitely more upside), any plan for this team’s playoff push that does NOT include one component or the other is in my mind a failure.
by SuperHorn on Dec 21, 2008 2:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Collins played well today. I'm happy with that.
What I would not have been happy with was bad play by Collins and an inability to try something to get something going, leading to a loss. Collins was on target today, they stuck with him, and all is well in Titan-land. We still had a critical drop from J. McCareins to close the first half, but even he had six receptions for 55 yards, so it’s hard to argue that even he should have been pulled.
All I wanted, I think all anyone wanted, was to see a hungry team fight like Hell to beat a good team. We saw that today.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 21, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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