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Has your KC opinion changed?

I was traveling all day yesterday, so I didn't get to see the game with my own eyes; all I'm going on is the stat page.  But, from the comments section, I got a pretty good idea that Kerry played stinky for 3.5 quarters yesterday.  I even read white02 -gasp- asking for Fisher to put in VY.  My question for ya'll is, do you still have the same faith in Kerry Collins leading this team? 

His passing performance yesterday is easily one that Vince could have achieved.  To date, his passing rating is about the same as VY's last year.  That's also not accounting for Young's rushing production, and the increased production he gives the running backs just by being on the field.  If Kerry is to remain the starter, his passing numbers need to be noticeably (not necessarily dramatically) better than Vince's, otherwise the decision to sit VY doesn't make sense.

Disclaimer:  While I continue to promote Vince, it should be noted that it is just because I think it's in the best interest of the team.  Yesterday's win was an important one and I don't want to take anything away from what this team is doing.

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My question is

Would VY have been able to stay in that game mentally after throwing 2 picks? I don’t know the answer, but I think he sits until Fisher is convinced he knows the answer to that question is yes.

That is just my opinion though..

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Oct 6, 2008 9:07 AM CDT   0 recs

"Would VY have been able to stay in that game mentally after throwing 2 picks"

Nope. Not the Vince we’ve been watching for the past year and a half… at least not without pouting and getting pissy.

Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!

by August West on Oct 6, 2008 9:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My gut tells me

That based on the comments he made post game, we are done seeing that Vince. His attitude tells me that he wants to prove the doubters wrong, and do what’s best for the team. I think this is a good, humbling experience for Vince. He needs to understand and see that this team can win without him. Maybe that will loosen him up and take some of the weight off his shoulders. I still think we will see Vince again this season. When/if he gets back, he’ll be pissed off and better than ever.

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 9:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My opinion hasn't changed.

That’s a very good, ball-hawking Ravens team. They are good against the run and good in the secondary, and say what you like, but VY really doesn’t handle the blitz very well. He panics when he’s blitzed and contained in the pocket. KC, on the other hand, tends to pick up the hot-read a little faster and has therefore made a lot more plays against the blitz. That was the critical difference in that Jags game, and indeed despite 3.5 quarters of pedestrian football, it was the decisive difference yesterday.

The Ravens blitz a lot. Early in the game, it was working and working well. Late in the game, the Titans finally recovered. And that’s your ballgame.

The idea that VY could necessarily have played better than KC just because KC really didn’t play well for most of the game is simply not logical. Those are two non-correlated things. I mean, maybe VYs legs would have made a difference, but I don’t really see it. The Ravens stuffed the run ALL DAY. I think they would have stuffed VY, too. The playbook on him is out there. It was written by Bob Sanders, and you can bet that Ray Lewis has watched enough film to know how it’s done.

Bottom line, VY needs to pass to be successful, and then if he can run on top of that, only then will he reach his full potential. For now, I tend to think he’s doing what he needs to be doing—watching a calm QB hold a fragile team together and win a nail-biter. That’s part of it.

KC threw one bad INT and had one tipped at the line, which was then caught in the air by a DE. His O-Line struggled all day. In those circumstances, it’s possible that VY would have done better, but it is at LEAST equally possible that he would have thrown a few more picks, ultimately costing the game. We’ll never know. But I see no reason to go away from what’s working.

Kerry Collins is a winner. Let the man play AT LEAST until he loses one.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 9:09 AM CDT   0 recs

I agree with both of you

That Fisher needs to keep Kerry starting, though my reasoning is a little different. I think Vince gives us a better chance to win, but starting him when the team is 5-0 is the absolute worst situation he can ask for because everyone will be second guessing the decision. Kerry needs to struggle and lose a game before it makes sense to put in Vince. Hopefully that day never comes. Until then, I support Fisher’s decision

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 9:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Why does he have to struggle and lose?

It’s a good team, and he’s a decent QB. Stop wishing for his self-destruction just so VY can ride in on a white horse. The white horse is already here. The team is 5-and-0!

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 9:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Easy killer

See above. I DO NOT want him to struggle and lose. Hence, “Hopefully that day never comes.”

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 9:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry for that.

It’s an exciting time to be a fan of this team. I live in Connecticut, work in Manhattan, and PROUDLY wore my Titans jacket to work today. It’s a cool thing to be able do in the only other city in America that boasts an undefeated team.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 10:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes

I think as long as the team is winning, a QB change is a risky thing. Hopefully with each game VY is getting closer to being ready again. Even if KC doesn’t struggle, he’s going to get dinged eventually.

by numbertenox on Oct 6, 2008 12:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My opinion changed a bit.

I don’t have quite and much faith in Collins as I had before. I might have called for VY after that 2nd pick, bit I changed my mind soon after.

It all really depends on which Vince we get. All this debate really just depends on whether we get the Vince with the fire in his belly or the confused, unsure Vince we’ve had lately. Since I am not close to Vince I have to trust that Fisher will know when the fire has come back.

I never really thought Collins was better than Vince. I just felt he was better than Vince has been playing. After yesterdays game I still feel that way, except that now I know that Collins will never be more than a fill in.

Like I said yesterday this is the best Collins will play. Vince still has more potential.

by theologic on Oct 6, 2008 9:26 AM CDT   0 recs

My opinion hasn't changed.

I don’t think we can win the Super Bowl with Kerry Collins under center.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 9:27 AM CDT   0 recs

Not good enough.

Luck could always step in, but with the teams in the NFC this season (Redskins, Cowboys, Packers, Giants, to name the big ones).

To be fair, we don’t win with Vince Young playing the way he has been either. We need a better player at the QB position.

The difference, IMO, is that Collins is who he is. Vince has the potential to get better.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 10:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Can it?

I’m not sure how well this years Titans stack up with, say, the Ravens in 2001, who did it entirely with defense. Don’t get me wrong, they’re very good, good enough to at least go pretty deep in the playoffs based off them alone. But the Titans have yet to go up against an elite offense this season. The Jags and Ravens have proven that a good defense can hold the Titans under 20 points. Can our defense do that to Dallas? I don’t know.

To me, we’re more analogous to the Bears in 2007. Good defense, maybe even a great defense, but not good enough to get it done all by itself.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

As an addendum to the above-

The last time somebody won the Superbowl while scoring less than 20 points was 1975. I feel that we need an offense at least marginally better than what we currently have. The fastest way to do that would actually be to trade for Roydell Williams from Detroit, but I’m not sure the Titans will do that.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 11:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Roy Williams?

I don’t think Roydell could his jockstrap.. haha

by b3tts32 on Oct 6, 2008 2:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, I said the wrong one didn't I?

Whichever one of them does the thing where the ball stays in his hands after the quarterback throws it to him, and then he runs? That guy. We should trade for him.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 2:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes.

But, that’s not an argument either of us can win…

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 9:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Anything is possible, but you stay with the Hot Hand.

That’s always been Fisher’s philosophy. It will continue to be his philosophy.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 9:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you're right on there.

I also saw your comments up top, and I agree that Vince was saying all the right things after the game.

And 2tonedblue mentioned that during the game, he was all over the field with his teammates and involved with the coaches.

I hope (and think!) that you are right about him wanting to prove the doubters wrong (of which I am one, for now) and this will help him improve his level of play and attitude. So I don’t think VY is going anywhere, and this team will again be his team. But as Danno says, you gotta stay with the hot hand for now.

by gramsey712 on Oct 6, 2008 9:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree with you both.

Stick with Collins until he loses.

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 9:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He only gets one loss?

We are not going to go through this season undefeated. We just aren’t. So if Collins has another bad game and we lose he’s done? I don’t think so. It would take more than that for Fisher to pull him.

You know Collins on that last drive looked as cool as he would have if we were up by 30 points. That is a QB that can take you all the way. Oh, I agree with Zu Long that we really need R. Williams.

by DZone on Oct 6, 2008 1:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hells no.

Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!

by August West on Oct 6, 2008 9:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He won the Giants game in '06

This would have been comparatively easy. And in all honesty, it’s not like Vince’s numbers against the Jaguars were much different from Collins’ against the Ravens.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 10:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't understand why KC's success is so hard to accept.

The Ravens have a GREAT defense. It is really a terrific D. In fact, if I’m being honest, I think it is better than the Titans D. They’re only problem is that they have a rookie QB, and he threw two picks, which ultimately cost them the game. But give Flacco a year, and they’ll be 1000% better than they were yesterday.

That said, EVERY QB is struggling against the Ravens. Neither KC nor VY is as good or has as much potential as Ben Rothlesburger, and he struggled mightily against the Ravens D. But if you pick your shots, you can eventually make plays against anyone, and that is what happened yesterday.

But don’t take anything away from the Ravens. They are an awesome team, and I DO NOT want to see them again in the playoffs.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 9:39 AM CDT   0 recs

I think it's a stretch

to call KC’s performance yesterday a success. The team was successful in winning, but for the most part it was in spite of Collins. Most teams in the NFL will find a way to win when the defense only allows 10 points.

Also, I happen to believe Vince has more potential Rothlisberger. He can do everything physically that Rothlisberger can do and then some. Whether that potential translates into production/success, I don’t know. But, Vince’s ceiling is easily higher than Big Ben’s purely because of his athleticism.

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 9:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Should read

potential than Rothlisberger.

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 9:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not hard to accept.

It’s that I don’t see any difference between this and what happened with Vince last year where the team was supposedly “carrying” him.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 10:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The difference is in the number of turnovers.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 10:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Increasing steadily.

As teams continue to gameplan for him, it’ll probably get worse.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 10:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Zu, the team did carry him last year

and that’s OK if you’re both grateful and improving, but he proved in week one that he was neither.

Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!

by August West on Oct 6, 2008 10:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think he proved that at all.

One game doesn’t prove much, and if Vince was frustrated, the difference in people’s reactions with respect to the staggeringly mediocre performances Collins is putting up tells me he was right to be.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 10:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Obviously there is nothing that anyone can say to change your mind, so why bother trying?

You’re the lone doomsayer in a place where most of us are rejoicing in our team’s start. And it’s getting old. I mean, it’s fine to have a little man-crush on VY, but this is crazy. The Titans are 5-0. Enjoy it!

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 10:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The lone doomsayer?

What about SuperHorn?

And no, there isn’t anything you can say to change my mind. The person who has to change my mind is Kerry. If he manages to become the savior some of you seem to think he is, then so be it, and Vince can sit on the bench. But so far, he’s not, and I don’t mind telling you he’s not.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 10:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Superhorn already admited that he was a) happy the team is winning, and b) not hoping Collins would fail.

You’ve done neither and seem unhappy about Collins’ performance. And it’s weird. I’m actually sitting here wondering if your VY’s driver or something.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 10:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

At what point, have I said I'm unhappy with 5-0?

Wasn’t I the one arguing we should be ranked #1 in the power rankings last week? I believe I was.

All I’ve said is that the way Collins is playing, I don’t think we can win the Superbowl with him, anymore than we could with Vince last year. Our defense is better because Griffin and Finnegan have stepped into their roles, but our offense has Chris Johnson, a great front line, and not much else going for it right now. Do you really, honestly believe that we’ve played well enough to beat the best the NFC has to offer? If so, fine. But I don’t think we’ve proven that yet.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 10:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

They could beat anyone but the Giants.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So, anyone but the team we'd likely face in the superbowl?

In which case, my opinion would still seem to be accurate.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 11:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm praying for the Cowboys.

But the Giants would be more fun, being that I’m in NYC right now.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 11:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And I don't know that I believe that Fisher will lose another Super Bowl.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 11:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If a guy as smart as Fisher was playing QB

I wouldn’t be worried.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Oct 6, 2008 11:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Heh. Fair enough.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 11:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dude. 5-and-0.

No. Saviour. Needed.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 10:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes.

Check the log. I’m sure it’s still here somewhere.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

oh call the whambulance

Vince has been so wronged!

Please. We Titans fans were the softest on him any market could ever be, and how did we get repaid? By paying good money to watch him pout WHILE WE WERE WINNING, then do something (whatever it was) that caused a good chunk of the team and coaching staff to believe he quit on the team.

How in the world can you say VY has been wronged?

Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!

by August West on Oct 6, 2008 10:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: VY being wronged

He was booed by his hometown fans. That sort of behavior is inexcusable and pathetic.

From the organizations side of things, I have no complaints. In fact, I don’t think they could have handled it any better.

Again, on this site, for the most part people are fair and consistent.

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 11:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"He was booed by his hometown fans. That sort of behavior is inexcusable and pathetic."

But everyone who has stood under center has been booed at one time or another. It’s not pathetic, it’s the only way a crowd can express displeasure.

Folding like a paper towel while YOUR TEAM IS WINNING is far closer to ‘pathetic and inexcusable’.

Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!

by August West on Oct 6, 2008 11:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Disagree

And, we should stick to what we know. You can’t say without a doubt that Vince folded. It seems likely, but it’s not a certainty.

I can promise you that if things get bad enough that the fans are considering booing a player; that player already knows it. Nothing positive comes out of booing, other than maybe a sliver of pleasure from the fan who feels better now that he has made said player aware that he thinks he’s playing like shit. In a word, that’s pathetic.

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 11:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's perfectly acceptable to boo the players when they play like garbage.

Buy the ticket, take the ride.

If you want me to cheer for you when you play good, or get real loud when you need to disrupt an opposing offense, then you can darn sure expect me to boo when you lay an egg.

You should expect it.

by gramsey712 on Oct 6, 2008 12:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

When I know I do wrong at my job, I still hear it from clients...

as well as my boss; that’s just how the world works. It’s not ideal but it’s gotten us this far.

As for whether or not VY folded, check out Paul Kuharsky’s exchange from his chat last friday:

PJK (Smyrna): Why did the media (local and national) blow the whole VY quit thing waaay out of proportion. I was at the game behind the Titans bench. That crap didn’t happen the way it was portrayed.

 Paul Kuharsky: Then a whole bunch of players and coaches are liars, because they confirmed it did. I believe enablers like you are part of Vince’s problem. Has he ever done anything wrong or should we canonize him right now?

I went back and forth about whether to post this, but it’s pretty damning to me because Kuharsky is one of about 4 NFL/Titans I trust completely…

Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!

by August West on Oct 6, 2008 11:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

In the same vein..

I’m sure that Vince is getting an earful from his coaches and teammates, which would be the same thing. But, you don’t have 80,000 people making sure that you know you aren’t performing well. Again, nothing good comes of it. And, I know it’s coming, so I’ll go ahead and put it to bed now…just because you are a paying fan, doesn’t give you the right to act like a jackass.

And, to the PK thing, no one is calling the coaches and players liars. But the coaches and players haven’t come out and said that Vince quit. At least, I haven’t read it. Have you?

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 11:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Come on now

you know if anyone came out and said ‘Vince quit on us.’ they’d be fired on the spot… especially if it’s true.

The closest we’re ever going to get to what happened is from reporters. If one of the few guys who really know this team and whom I trust say the players and coaches have confirmed the media reports, it lends a ton of credibility to what was leaked to Peter King and Adam Schefter for sure…

Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!

by August West on Oct 6, 2008 11:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Right

But, as I said before: We should stick to what we know. You can’t say without a doubt that Vince folded. It seems likely, but it’s not a certainty.

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 12:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No, you won't put it to bed.

That’s completely ignorant. To expect me to spend upwards of 200 dollars for my wife and I to attend a game and have no outlet to display my displeasure? I don’t care if they know they are playing like crap or not, they are gonna get booed.

And I am obviously not the only one who feels that way.

by gramsey712 on Oct 6, 2008 12:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What exactly am I ignoring?

Yes. I do expect you “to spend upwards of 200 dollars for my wife and I to attend a game and have no outlet to display my displeasure?” Because I’m of the opinion that home field advantage isn’t a door that should swing both ways. Your role is to be loud and support the team.

And, no you’re not one of the only that feels that way. I don’t know how that is relevant, though. A large number of people that share a mentality does not make it the right one. See Nazi Germany.

Here’s my issue: I understand these guys are big boys. They get paid to do what they do. But, as a fan I’m going to do everything in my power to help the team. That includes screaming my lungs out every play. Booing does not help the team. It hurts the team. By booing, you are putting the team second to yourself, and for what, the satisfaction of kicking someone when their down. Really?

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 12:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, I'm gonna keep booing

And if your sweet, tender hearted quarterback can’t handle it, too bad. There is one in Pittsburgh who has less “potential” who can.

But I guess that is one of your pet peeves, just like I can’t stand people who complain about officiating, and you are entitled to your opinion. So, wherever that leaves us, there we are.

by gramsey712 on Oct 6, 2008 12:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Whatever.

I don’t get it, though.

I mean, does booing really serve any purpose other than making you feel better? Do you really need that?

I don’t mean that in a condescending way…I just don’t understand the logic.

No doubt you consider yourself a fan. Accordingly, I would think you’d do anything in your power to help the team. Booing does just the opposite. It doesn’t make sense to me. Help me understand.

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 12:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sometimes not booing is being an enabler

and that’s worse than booing.

Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!

by August West on Oct 6, 2008 1:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe...

But those situations are few and far between. In fact the only time I can think of where I’d support booing is the Albert Haynesworth stomp.

And, enabler would lead me to believe they are doing it on purpose, which 99/100 times is not the case.

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 1:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's my largest issue

And, for the most part, it’s not as much of a problem on this blog. But on other message boards, I can say with a 100% degree of certainty that if Fisher started Vince yesterday and he performed like KC, the media and a large number of fans would be calling for his head.

by SuperHorn on Oct 6, 2008 10:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know about that. Maybe.

But a game-winning two-minute drive is money. Everybody loves that. Even Petere King.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 6, 2008 10:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What I saw last night...

was our QB carrying the team on his back and carry us to victory. Something we haven’t seen since VY in his rookie year.

I firmly believe that Fisher will stick to Collins the whole year barring injuries. But I also believe that VY will perform well once called from the bench.

It’ll be an exciting preseason next year.

Go Titans!

by Pinoy Titan on