Kerry Collins has been no better than Vince Young

by zackmann on Oct 2, 2008 8:58 PM CDT Comment 45 comments

56.6% Completion Percentage.

2 Passing TD's in 4 games.

Only 6.95 yards per attempt.

Thank god we got Vince Young out of there.

Every media outlet, local and national, repeat the same theme.

Kerry Collins is showing how much better he is than Vince Young right now.

And it isn't true.

If Vince Young had the same completion percentage as Kerry Collins right now, he'd be getting killed. In fact, last year Vince was over 62% and got killed for it. Collins is at 56% and is getting praised for it.

If, no when, Vince Young was over throwing WR's on deep passes last year, he got killed for it. This year, Kerry Collins is over throwing virtually every long pass he has thrown. And he is getting praised for it.

If the Titans had only 2 passing TD's in 4 games under Vince Young, he'd be getting killed for it. In fact, last year that was all we averaged and Vince got killed for it. This year, Collins is getting praised for only 2 TD's in 4 games.

Listen, we can't have an unstable, emotional QB. And if that was what Vince would be this year, he shouldn't be in there and I support that decision to keep him on the bench.

But let's not confuse the stats and the production. The defense is carrying this team. The running game is carrying this offense. The offense is bad in the 2nd half this year.

Praising Collins is ridiculous. The passing game has been just as bad as before. The only difference is that the INT's are down slightly. The completion percentage is horrible and is worse than Vince last year. How can Vince's completion percentage last year be such a red flag but a completion percentage lower than that be great?

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Winning is the best deodorant - John Madden

Vince Young may have depression, in which case that needs to be treated, but he is still the future (and very talented) QB of your team. I think you’re in a tough situation, because your defense and running game are so good that you want to win now (as a Ravens fan we’ve been there many times before), but it’s going to be very tough without an good passing game.

by math_geek on Oct 2, 2008 9:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This biggest difference....

isn’t completion percentage but rather turnovers and decision making. Kerry brings good decision making that Vince doesn’t.

by BigW on Oct 2, 2008 9:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Check your stats

Through the first three games of last year, the TD to int ratio was the same. Though, VY had 4 TDs.

http://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2008/9/29/624486/vy-and-kc-by-the-numbers

by SuperHorn on Oct 3, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Once again, if VY was the same VY that started last year then he'd be back under center already...

but he imploded for most of the second half of last year, and that can’t be dismissed. Kerry hasn’t wavered since he was put in to start.

Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!

by August West on Oct 3, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right, but

Let’s also be clear that the teams we’ve played thusfar aren’t exactly at the top of their games. Everyone here loves citing football outsiders, they say we have the weakest schedule in all of football thusfar. Link Kerry has played the 20, 28, and 29th ranked defenses in his starts.

The teams Vince played last year were Jacksonville, Indy, and NO. Ranked, 2,4, and 21, respectively, on defense by Football Outsiders.

It’s a different year, and we aren’t comparing apples to apples here, but it’d be foolish to think that Vince had the same amount of talent around him at this point last year. And while we shouldn’t discount his implosion, it’s ignorant to give Kerry all this praise without at least considering the competition he’s played.

As I’ve said before, we’ll know alot more about this team and Kerry, after the game on Sunday.

by SuperHorn on Oct 3, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Vince Young is a winner

I dont care about stats. Vince young is a winner. His rookie year, vince took the titans to a 8-8 record. the next year, 10-6 with a wild card birth. Vince young is still the man to me.

FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Benji5203 on Oct 2, 2008 9:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Vince Young

was carried last year to the playoffs by his teammates. He had a bad year. To think otherwise suggests you didn’t watch any of the games.

by BeansCarter on Oct 2, 2008 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

VY’s teammates let him down as well. There was a dropped pass against Indy that could have led to the winning FG, and against Denver, Vince played one of his best games of the year and the entire team decided not to show up for a nationally televised Monday night.

by TheElusiveShadow on Oct 3, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I won't deny

that Collins is managing the game well and giving us a good chance to win.

But it’s not much better than Vince.

The defense is still the reason we are winning. The running game is still the reason the offense isn’t a complete train wreck.

If Vince would have over thrown all the long passes that Collins has this year, he would be getting killed. But Collins is getting praised for it.

There is a clear bias against Vince and for Collins in the local and national media right now and they are clearly not actually watching the passing game and looking at the stats when they say how much better Collins is playing than Vince.

by zackmann on Oct 2, 2008 9:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

zackmann---

serious question…are you a young fan because of the titans, or a titans fan because of young? i ask that because it seems that you are extra defensive and often sarcastic when it comes to the young situation. i totally respect your thoughts and opinions, always have. i am a long time fan of the franchise. i hope that vince young turns out to be everything i imagine he can. he has a very rare talent and very special skills. i would love for him to take the team to the super bowl this year….but right now, the team, players, and most of the fans have more confidence in collins. i don’t know the whole story of what happened after the jacksonville game, but from what we have been told, young was a mess and that has to impact his teammates. the best thing he can do is practice well and when his shot comes, take advantage of it…..and i will be shocked if he doesn’t get another shot one way or another this season. i really don’t care who is the qb if they hold up the lombardi trophy at the end of the season!!

by gotitans27 on Oct 2, 2008 10:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

my fan status

Grew up in Missouri without a team I called my own.

Became a titans fan in 2003 when I moved to Memphis. Fell for the defense, attitude, and style of play. Loved mcnair.

I didn’t become a vince young fan untill the rose bowl.

Regarding mr sarcastic tone. I do that to combat what I feel is an unfair standard.

For instance, collins over threw 2 or 3 deep passes and there wasn’t a peep out of the announcers about the poor throws. But when vince ever missed a WR deep , it was always followed by some comment about him needing to get more accurate.

by zackmann on Oct 2, 2008 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

that people are much more critical of vy, the reason they aren’t for collins is because he has proven himself as a passer in the nfl, young hasn’t…..yet. i’m the same way, became a young fan in the rose bowl, was thrilled to death when they drafted him, happy when he started, loved the first year, scared as can be about his future with the team, hopeful he will be a star!

by gotitans27 on Oct 4, 2008 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

GoTitans

Please link/reference where you’ve seen the players indicate they have more confidence in Collins. I think you’ll find that is a fiction of your imagination/what the media is trying to portray.

by SuperHorn on Oct 3, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you may be right about the media..

however it is not my imagination :-)

It’s what I have heard from the John Clayton’s and Chris Mortensen’s of the world. On more than one occasion on ESPNRadio I have heard them mention that a player (never named) has said this or that about losing confidence in young. please realize guys….i am a huge young supporter. i thought joykat was nuts for a year, but do you really think he would be better right now than Collins? i want the team to win, period! I don’t care if it is Vince Young, Vince Evans, Kerry Collins, or Kerry Wood that is QB :-)

by gotitans27 on Oct 4, 2008 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

one other thing....

i agree that young does get criticized quicker than collins, a lot of that comes with the hype that surrounds him. collins is more under the radar nowadays, young is much in the public eye. you do make a good point about that.

by gotitans27 on Oct 2, 2008 10:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I understand the stats

I just have a hard time believing that Vince would have only turned the ball over once in the past 3 games.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Oct 2, 2008 10:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I readily admit the low turnovers is a plus

but I just keep reading all this praise on Collins.

Make no mistake about it, Collins has not been accurate and has done nothing to improve our passing game.

Collins is NOT more accurate than vince. Collins is not throwing more TDs than young did.

I’m not saying vince should be playing now or this year. I’m just saying Collins isn’t any better than many of the QB traits that vince got killed for last year.

by zackmann on Oct 2, 2008 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think

“praising collins is ridiculous”. He’s playing pretty well. He has an 80 something passer rating right now, which ranks him 24th in the league. Nothing to write home about, I’d agree. But, VYs rating last season was low 70’s and 26th in the league. Neither one of them has lit it up.

Jimmy keeps raising the INT point. That is why VYs rating was considerably lower last year than Kerry’s is now, even though his 2007 completion percentage was higher. He threw two picks for every TD. Kerry so far has done the opposite. Granted the sample size is very, very small ;-).

Now, I had thought that KC was hitting WRs more frequently than VY last year, but turns out that’s wrong. I eyeballed three games worth for both of them, and the percentage of their completions that went to WRs was almost identical.

Kerry does seem to make decisions about where to throw much faster than Vince. That doesn’t seem to be helping the completion percentage, but I think his decision making is clearly the reason he’s throwing INTs at a lower rate than Vince did.

by numbertenox on Oct 2, 2008 11:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

he's not playing well

he’s just not playing horrible. There is a difference.

We have the best defense in football and not playing horrible will get us to the playoffs.

We still have one of the worst passing attacks I’m the league. We still can’t pass for a TD worth a dang.

So everyone this offseason that said VY needed to improve his accuracy and think Collins is playing good are ready to modify their statement to only being about INTs and not about accuracy?

by zackmann on Oct 2, 2008 11:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think that's reasonable

completion percentage wasn’t too bad for vy last year, if you ranked the 2007 starting qbs based solely on completion percentage, vy was 16th – middle of the pack. turnovers in my mind are his weak spot, and a lot of that is decision making.

I can’t see how anyone could justify KC being markedly better than VY in any aspect other than decision making / not turning over the ball and leadership (although that’s hard for fans to call – we can see the on the field stuff but not much insight into the huddle and off the field stuff).

I did hear KC (at least I think it was KC) bark out “Keep up Crumpler!” from the huddle in that last game ;-).

by numbertenox on Oct 3, 2008 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I miss VY

I miss Vince. But I miss the old Vince. I’m really hoping that he’ll make a big come back. Honestly, Vince is why I got into football. Now don’t get me wrong I use to watch a few games back in the day. But I really wanted it to be with someone new to really make it Tennessee. So I checked out VY in ‘06. And I was addicted ever since. Now I keep it up with it all the time. But Who wants a winny looser Vince? But I’m hoping he can come back and blow things out of the water. Although, I still think we are one great WR from being incredble. Speaking of WR, where is “Hawk”? I thought he was suppose to break it out anytime soon. Anyway, I guess that’s it.

by jmac1383 on Oct 3, 2008 12:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

"I miss Vince. But I miss the old Vince."

Exactly. What Vinc had become is not the guy who won Rookie of the Year.

Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!

by August West on Oct 3, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kerry is managing the games well...

he makes quick reads, throws the ball with confidence, throws it away when he has to… summary he’s making good decisions with the football and the result is low turnover. If we have to praise Kerry, it is because of this.

I have no doubt Vince can also do this and more. He needs to grow up though and make better preparations before games. He will start again whether some of us like it or not. Kerry knows it also.

Go Titans!

by Pinoy Titan on Oct 3, 2008 12:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Appropos of nothing...

Kerry Collins is currently the 12th best QB in the League according to FO:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

That’s better than VY has ever done. More to the point, it has become my considered opinion over the past few weeks that if you have to constantly defend your QB, then he’s probably not quite as good as you thought he was. And honestly, I’m way past tired of being anybody’s apologist.

DannoE

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!

by DannoE on Oct 3, 2008 6:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Really Collins

is what Fisher wants in a QB. Just don’t get in the way and don’t pout on the sideline.

by Tate on Oct 3, 2008 6:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

All you need to know

All you need to know about VY is that he is a Quiter! He quit on his coach, He quit on his teammates and He QUIT on US FAN’s!

Personally I’m tried off all the Vince Young talk. I wish he would go away. He has really turned me against him. Because the worst thing you can do to your team and IN LIFE period is QUIT!

Pacman was a cancer.. But at least that Cancer NEVER quit on his Teammates..

I really wish the Titans would just CUT Young.. I don’t even want them to bother with trying to trade or work with him..

As far as I’m concerned he is worthless..

He a man for crying out loud making millions of dollars and on top of the world.. but he quits?

there I’ve said what I had to say

by white02slpss on Oct 3, 2008 7:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow

That from the eternal optimist.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Oct 3, 2008 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry

I’m sorry Jimmy!

I supported Vince the day the Titans drafted him.. But once he quit.. It hurt!

One of the things I stress to my 8 and 7 year old sons is that you try. You might not be the best at it.. but as long as you try and try your best.

tell me how I’m to sit on the sofa with them Sunday afternoon and while with one side I tell them to never give up and always try.. and then on the other side Support a man (don’t forget he is a man) who gave up.

A man keeps fighting and keep’s moving forward.

Look at Bret Farve. Man throws INT’s like it’s no big deal.. But he keeps fighting and working. Look at our own beloved QB Steve McNair. You had to basically cut a leg or arm off to keep him off the Field.

Look at all the Very good to great QB’s of the past.. did any of them ever quit?

by white02slpss on Oct 3, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Link please

Will you please post something that supports your conclusion that Vince “quit”? I have yet to hear that from anyone in the organization.

You have a right to your opinion. I think it’s a mistake to base it on something that you don’t know is a fact.

Everyone hits a rough patch, White. Kerry certainly did, though not while he was with the Titans. People quickly forget that Vince started this winning trend. He got the locker room believing in themselves. Hold off on a final judgement.

by SuperHorn on Oct 3, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I based

judgement off of Bulluck, the drama and coach fisher.

No one is going to come right out and say he “QUIT” the word “QUIT” is replaced with “thoughts of retirement” or “No one is quiting on this side of the ball”

If you want to hide behind “I have yet to hear that from anyone in the organization” then so be it. You have a right to your opinion as well.

The “Drama” isn’t a mistake or a mis-communication.. not at that level of fame.. you don’t make that mistake. Coach Fisher NEW as soon as he called the cops it was going to be all over the news.. So why would he call the cops if it wasn’t warrented? The Man quit…..

If I was on the team (or at my work place) I would not want to follow (take direction) from a person who quits

by white02slpss on Oct 3, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That argument belongs in 2nd grade.

People quit all the time. At all kinds of stuff. I know “Winners never quit” may look good on a cereal box, but it’s not real life. Regardless, you can choose to believe the media reports if you’d like, but answer me this:

How many plays did Vince miss in the JAX game before he was injured?

How many plays has Vince ever missed that weren’t due to injury?

That would be 0.

And while we’re speaking of lessons for kids (as you did earlier), are you really going to equate someone having emotional problems to “quitting”? Is that the kind of compassion and understanding that you think we should instill in America’s youth? Really?

by ctex80 on Oct 3, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

quitting

quiting is quiting.. No matter how you put it!

emotional problems as I have stated shouldn’t be messed with.. and people with emontional problems need help and DO NOT need to be leading others!

as for how many plays he quit on.. Well.. let’s think about it this way.. Maybe him quiting is the reason he played so poorly. He may have been out there.. but he was NEVER the same as he was at Texas or his Rookie year.. He doesn’t have to miss a play in order to quit..

by white02slpss on Oct 3, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he quit

That is inexcusable. But, I also take issue with fans that want to ride this kid, man, whatever when the times are good and then throw him under the bus when times get bad. There is no excuse for quitting, though, I’d wager that it isn’t as black and white as you make it. My guess is that the truth lies somewhere in between both of our “realities”.

Back to your analogy about your children, I appreciate the value you are trying to instill. Quitting is wrong. Worse than someone who quits, though, is someone who won’t give people a second chance. Is that really a value you want to teach your kids?

by SuperHorn on Oct 3, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Second Chance?

I’ll give someone a second chance when the show me something. But I don’t give second chances just because..

Also you call him a Kid.. He is NO kid.. He is a man and I take issue with a Man quitting.

and please guys.. Think of it this way.. A leader is the man we all look too, the man we need, the man who is depended on. Ask yourself.. Is Vince that man? If Vince becomes the starter again how many of his teammates are going to look at him and believe? How many of us fans are? It will always be in the back of everyones mind that he may just quit again when things start going bad

by white02slpss on Oct 3, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What does he need to show you?

by SuperHorn on Oct 3, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm no Collins fan and you're statement may be true..

but there’s no sense is changing anything if we’re 4-0. If the wheels start falling off I can see a change being made but we don’t need to make a change just to make a change. Let’s just let things roll from here.

by b3tts32 on Oct 3, 2008 8:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i agree

by gotitans27 on Oct 4, 2008 7:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another note

Vince Young may end up being a great QB one day..

But I can’t see it as a Titan… Once something like this happens it is extremely hard to get your teammates repect back..

He may need a fresh start in order to be sucessful again..

by white02slpss on Oct 3, 2008 9:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I've read somewhere...

…(sorry I can’t find it right now) where Mawae is saying they will support anyone who goes under center. Another thing about our team which I like is they are true professionals.

If VY has lost some of his teammates respect, he can earn it back. Nothing a 4th quarter comeback can’t cure.

Go Titans!

by Pinoy Titan on Oct 3, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Caretaking QB

Collins has done a good job of simply not losing the game. As far as his actual throwing performance, it’s fairly mediocre. Arguably, that’s all this Titans team needs with its running game and defense. With players like VY and Favre (and arguably Romo), you have to deal with mindboggling turnovers to go with highlight plays. Some teams would rather simply have a guy who doesn’t win the game for them but also doesn’t lose it. So the argument goes, anyway.

However, you have to ask yourselves: Is this good enough to go deep in the playoffs and win the Super Bowl? Trent Dilfer is the example everyone brings up, but that was eight years ago and with one of the greatest defenses of all time. The Colts will undoubtedly rebound, and other teams in the AFC are dangerous. While Grossman took the Bears to the Super Bowl two years ago, it wasn’t exactly a powerful NFC they went through.

I should remind everyone I’m not a Titans fan, so just from an outsider’s perspective, I don’t see them winning with Kerry Collins at the helm with average to below-average receivers. That of course doesn’t guarantee they’ll win it with VY at QB, but with his talent level, the ceiling of the team is arguably higher.

by TheElusiveShadow on Oct 3, 2008 2:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Um...

I’d like to correct you on one point… Grossman did not take the Bears to the Superbowl. The Bears took Grossman to the Superbowl, and then… Hester gives them a 7 point lead on the opening kickoff, and Grossman proceeded to practically throw the game… 2 INTs, 2 Fumbles, and 165 yards passing, on his way to a rating of 68.

Quarterbacks are important. Very important. The Bears lost in the Superbowl because they didn’t have one.

by BeansCarter on Oct 5, 2008 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Is this good enough to go deep in the playoffs and win the Super Bowl?"

Yes. So far I’d say Collins is better than Dilfer, and honestly better than Eli Manning. Until proven otherwise, this team is Super Bowl Caliber and I’d take them against anyone in the league right now.

/ducks head to avoid objects thrown this way

Michael Roos doesn't eat pitas because NOTHING BREAKS THE POCKET ON HIS WATCH!!!

by August West on Oct 3, 2008 4:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs