Tank Johnson Gets 8 Games

by Jimmy on Jun 4, 2007 3:26 PM CDT in News

Maybe #32 should look at getting convicted of something. The commissioner handed Tank Johnson an eight game suspension today. The suspension could be reduced to six games if Tank Johnson does not have any more incidents. Johnson is also allowed to participate in offseason workouts and play in preseason games.

Let's break this down. Chris Henry who has multiple convictions and incidents without convictions gets suspended for 8 games. Tank Johnson, who was plead guilty to a handgun charge and later violated his probation, was suspended for what will probably end up being 6 games. This doesn't make any sense.

My feelings on #32 have been made clear. I have no problem with him being suspended or the length of his suspension, BUT justice should be equally applied. How people with convictions can get less time than people without convictions is beyond me.

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We

must of posted about the same time!

You can delete my dairy if you want. But I know what you are saying

by white02slpss on Jun 4, 2007 3:50 PM CDT 0 recs

I wonder

if adddddddddditude had a lot to do with it?

by white02slpss on Jun 4, 2007 3:52 PM CDT 0 recs

White's diary comments

Here is what White had to say in his diary. He and I actually agree !!!:)

At first I really felt that Pacman got what he deserved with the Year long suspension.

But now that the Dust has settled and Now that Tank Johnson has been punished I'm really wondering if Pac's is fair.

Both Henry and Johnson have been convicted of crimes. Johnson served Jail time and was also involved in a shotting to which his best friend was killed.

So tell me why he only got 8 games and it's reviewed after 6 games! All the while Pacman got a year with a review after 10.

By no means is pacman a saint. But Fair is Fair in my book. If you suspend one player for a year then those of similar criminal records should at the very LEAST get the same.

I also by no means think Pacman is innocent. But at the same time you have to give the benefit of doubt to someone who has yet to be convicted of a crime. Both Henry and Johnson have been convicted!!!!!

I should mention that Pacman had a defered "conviction/sentence" I almost forgot about that.

But still fair is fair. yes i think a year is fair, but Tank Johnson should also have a year too!

Your thoughts one more time now that Johnsons suspension is out!

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Jun 4, 2007 3:56 PM CDT 0 recs

Didn't

we also agree that the Titans were going to win the superbowl this year? :-p

by white02slpss on Jun 4, 2007 4:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

The Legend of Billie Jean Lives On

Whether you meant it or not, the "fair is fair" line makes me think of Helen Slater kicking ass on the Texas coast.

by Bob LaBlog on Jun 4, 2007 7:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

i don't understand

how actually serving jail time gets you a lighter sentence...

by zackmann on Jun 4, 2007 4:21 PM CDT 0 recs

I agree

Jail time should be irrelevant when it comes to suspensions.

So basically if #32 went to jail for a month this offseason he would be allowed to make half of the money he would have made. You actually get rewarded financially for going to jail.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Jun 4, 2007 4:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

Where would

you guys rate Pacman's offenses compared to Henrys and Johnsons?

by white02slpss on Jun 4, 2007 4:33 PM CDT 0 recs

With the exception

of the Vegas incident, which again wasn't factored in the suspension, #32's offenses are probably not as bad as Henry's or Johnson's. None of #32's, besides Vegas, involve guns or DUIs.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Jun 5, 2007 7:45 AM CDT up 0 recs

This also

just means that once Vick plea bargins out of his case and is guilty that he will only get a 4 game suspension reviewed after week one

by white02slpss on Jun 4, 2007 4:36 PM CDT 0 recs

Isn't Pac

the most constant offender. It seems like incident after incident. I'm not too familiar with Tank Johnson, but isn't this a 1st or 2nd offense? Pac's seemed like every week.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Jun 4, 2007 5:31 PM CDT 0 recs

That is the

only thing that makes any sense. I still think that severity of incident should be just as much of a factor as number.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Jun 5, 2007 7:46 AM CDT up 0 recs

I agree with

you jimmy that the severity of the incident should be as much a factor. But when the snowball gets rolling you know how it goes. It seemed like the pac stuff was all in a 2 month span at a time when not much else was going on or cared about.

by Big Bad Bulluck on Jun 5, 2007 8:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

charges

Does anyone know how many Pac has against him?

A 2004 second-round pick, Johnson pleaded guilty to a gun possession charge in November 2005 and was placed on 18 months probation.

He was also arrested December 14 when police raided his home and found three handguns, three rifles and more than 500 rounds of ammunition.

Johnson pleaded guilty on January 10 to 10 charges stemming from the raid.

Two days after his arrest, he was at a Chicago nightclub when his bodyguard and housemate, Willie B. Posey, was killed by gunfire.

The Bears suspended Johnson for one game for being at the club, and he needed special permission to travel out of state to play in the Super Bowl in Miami on February 4.

Johnson has about 11 charges or some sort.

Pac's vegas incident has appeared to quietly go away because and I'm guessing, but they found Pac not to be involved as the owner says or not enough evidence to Charge him.

by white02slpss on Jun 5, 2007 9:12 AM CDT up 0 recs

There are 11 incidents

where he has been mentioned in police reports. Two of those were the gun fire at the gas stations where he was present, and the drug raid where the car was seized. There were no charges or anything filed against him for those.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Jun 5, 2007 9:21 AM CDT up 0 recs

ESPN's Poll about Tank

Espn has a poll - "Was Tank Johnson's suspension fair" I vote no, becuase it was too light of a suspension, therefore unfair to pac -

by TrenchantTitan on Jun 5, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up 0 recs

I just read something

in Peter King's column that kind of made a lightbulb come on. He says that when Johnson went in front of the commish that he said all the right things. Some kind of crap like "I want to change my ways and be the NFL man of the year" or just "not carry my assault rifles in the truck." OK, I made that last one up. Do we think that Pac may have gone in there and just acted like an idiot? (Going to the Gentleman's Club THE NIGHT BEFORE probably didn't help). I think the Commish is worried more about rehabilitation and not really what you did. Maybe Pac didn't sound remorseful enough and gave him a lot of "I really didn't do anything."

Of course Johnson's was one of those federal cases that it isn't up to a DA and automatic jail time for weapons, I think.

My personal opinion is that he shouldn't do anything and let the situation take care of itself. If Pac doesn't change his ways, he is gonna end up on the wrong end of the Minxx or in prison anyway, and it is hard to play in prison. That is how we handle things in the 'Burbs of Chattanooga!

Go Titans!

by gramsey712 on Jun 4, 2007 5:56 PM CDT 0 recs

it;s been two weeks! Yeah!

and we havent heard anything but you know what that means.. waiting with baited breathe - BOOM! Bomb drops and there he is again!

its almost like you can anticipate him being in the news..

i reference my post on watching him perform during that Titans turn-around game 06 vs. the Giants and without him? Remember Michael Griffin, Courtland Finegan, etc.. we're loaded up and got plenty of soild talent who are anxious to stepup and make him a bad memory.

ornery but honest ...

by Ross on Jun 4, 2007 10:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

by Loaded .. Nick included &

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=120&p=8&c=2&nid=97&yr=2007

and we still have plenty of room..

ornery but honest ...

by Ross on Jun 4, 2007 10:44 PM CDT up 0 recs

My mother-in-law

mentioned that there was something on the radio in Nashville last week about Pac being in a jetski accident on the lake in Nashville. Anyone hear anything like that? I never saw it in the Tennessean, so she may have been hearing things.

Go Titans!

by gramsey712 on Jun 5, 2007 10:21 AM CDT up 0 recs

I never heard

that, but I will check around and see if I can find anything.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Jun 5, 2007 11:04 AM CDT up 0 recs

Friend of a Friend

Total BS, but I heard the story 3 times removed. Guy that I know's neighbor said that his buddy was up at Percy Priest over the holiday weekend. Several boats were tied together, and festivities commenced. Somewhere in here Pacman apparently scoots in on a jetski with some ganja. Pacman allegedly lights up and a good time was had by all. My first question was, why would you not get that on a cell phone pic......you would be an idiot not to get that picture.

And thats the way that I heard it....but don't believe any of it.

by TrenchantTitan on Jun 5, 2007 12:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

I scream....

everytime they say that Tank Johnson should get a lesser sentence because he already served time in jail. That's like saying a sex offender shouldn't register because they spent time in prison. I think the fact that he was locked up should make the punishment worse.

by gotitans27 on Jun 4, 2007 6:43 PM CDT 0 recs

You guys is nuts.

Pacman got a much higher suspension for failure to report prior incidents, which violates the CBA's disclosure requirements and is tantamount to fraudulent behavior, as far as the NFL is concerned. That, also considering his laundry list of idiotic behavior (much of it proven, even if the criminal charges are pending or dropped) certainly justifies his exceptional suspension.

Hogs Haven

by Skin Patrol on Jun 5, 2007 12:28 PM CDT 0 recs

Really....??

Then why did the NFLPA only recommend a fine for the failure to report the arrests in GA?

by TrenchantTitan on Jun 5, 2007 12:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

Because...

they are his representative and a failure to ask for a lighter fine could reasonably be viewed as a failure to represent on their part (subjecting them to countersuit by Pacman).

Suppose you are tried with a crime and your lawyer fails to even argue for bail. That would classify as inadequate representation.

Hogs Haven

by Skin Patrol on Jun 5, 2007 1:06 PM CDT up 0 recs

Also,

why is this relevant? The NFLPA signed the CBA where they gave Goodell enormous latitude in meting out punishments.

Hogs Haven

by Skin Patrol on Jun 5, 2007 1:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

Honestly

the whole thing is dumb. You can't leave power to suspend up to one person. Just watch, he won't come down as hard on Vick because he needs Vick for his league.

I am still not upset about the #32 suspension in and of itself. I just can't understand how Henry and Johnson don't get more.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Jun 5, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up 0 recs

Re:

You can't leave power to suspend up to one person. Just watch, he won't come down as hard on Vick because he needs Vick for his league.

I do not disagree that the current penalty structure is strange compared to the Judicial System, in that large amounts of power are invested into the subjective opinion of one man. Then again, that's the structure the Players agreed upon through their representative agency. They probably conceded the penalty structure for some other concession, or else they simply could not get the Commish to move on it. Ask yourself this: What incentive would the Commissioner of the NFL, the person solely responsible for the league, concede the ability to penalize players of said league? He is the employer. The NFLPA represents his employees. It would be like your boss conceding discretion to fire you for incompetence.

Regarding Vick, it wouldn't surprise me if he got more of a punishment (given the high profile of the crime and how fans have reacted) than Pacman, nor would it surpise me if he got less of a punishment (given that he has fewer instances of indiscretions, that he wasn't fraudulent with the league, etc.). We agree that it would be deplorable if the Commish treated him differently in virtue of his star status, but I also wouldn't presume that Mike Vick receiving a different punishment is evidence that he's getting a concession because the league "needs" him. Rather these represent two very different circumstances, just as Tank Johnson and Pacman represent different circumstances.

Hogs Haven

by Skin Patrol on Jun 5, 2007 5:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

You are Crazy!

Tank Johnson and Henry have done just as much if not more than Pacman has. Pacman was a 1st round 6th over all pick so he is trusted into the spot light a lot more than Henry and Johnson.

Secondly Pac's failure to report his drug charge actually falls under the league substance abuse policy. Not it's conduct policy.

But by your reasoning Pac got at least 10 games for not reporting? I guess your right. That is much worse than Gun and shooting charges!

Either way you slice it! it's not even across the board. NOW I'm not saying that Pacman shouldn't have gotten what he got. But I do think Tank Johnson should have gotten equal to or worse than Pac

by white02slpss on Jun 5, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up 0 recs

Re:

Tank Johnson and Henry have done just as much if not more than Pacman has. Pacman was a 1st round 6th over all pick so he is trusted into the spot light a lot more than Henry and Johnson.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. Pacman Jones has been implicated in more illegal activity than Chris Henry or Tank Johnson, probably combined if I went back and counted it all up. This has nothing to do with Pacman Jones' relative draft position.

Secondly Pac's failure to report his drug charge actually falls under the league substance abuse policy. Not it's conduct policy.

This is incorrect. Here is my source and here is the relevant portion of the NFL Personal Conduct Policy:

the League must be advised when a Covered Person engages in Prohibited Conduct. The obligation to report an arrest or criminal charge extends to both the person involved and to the Club or League entity for which he or she works.

"Persons subject to this policy who are arrested or charged with Prohibited Conduct must report that incident to their Clubs or to NFL Security. Failure to report an incident will constitute conduct detrimental and will be taken into consideration in the final determination of discipline under this policy."

But by your reasoning Pac got at least 10 games for not reporting? I guess your right. That is much worse than Gun and shooting charges!

No, by my reasoning he got suspended for at least 10 games for fraudulently representing himself to the league (a very serious infraction that, if committed by you or I, would simply get us fired from our current employment... for life) and for constantly being in the wrong place at the wrong time, in one instance resulting in a woman's head getting (allegedly) smashed against a bar and someone else being paralyzed from the waist down.

The Criminal Justice System in the USA is woefully inadequate for bringing justice to affluent and opulent NFL stars with enough money to buy reasonable doubt.

Either way you slice it! it's not even across the board. NOW I'm not saying that Pacman shouldn't have gotten what he got. But I do think Tank Johnson should have gotten equal to or worse than Pac

We'll happily agree to disagree. I find nothing troubling with Tank Johnson and Chris Henry's suspensions relative to Pacman Jones. In all three cases, the punishment fit the behavior.

Hogs Haven

by Skin Patrol on Jun 5, 2007 5:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

Very

Nice post and very well put!

Since you are so good at it could you do me a favor?

Could you please post a list of charges and incidents that all 3 have been involved in?

by white02slpss on Jun 6, 2007 6:23 AM CDT up 0 recs

I'll do my best:

Pacman Jones:

1. Arrested for Assault and Vandalism July of 2005

2.Confrontation with police results in his questioning September 2005

October 2005, violation of probation, failure to meet with officer results in an extension of that probation
February 2006: charged with felony and misdemeanor obstruction of justice (him and a friend ran from the police after Jones was "physical" with them).
March 2006: arrested and charged with marijuana possession.
Arrested for PI and disorderly conduct August 2006
Spit in a woman's face, cited with misdemeanor assault October 2006
February 2007 (allegedly) bangs a stripper's head against the stage after he causes a rukus by throwing cash onto said stage. When a security guard comes to calm the situation down, Pacman (allegedly) bites him. Someone (allegedly) seen with Pacman ends up paralyzing Tommy Urzbanski with a bullet. In March the LVPD inform the District Attorney to charge Pacman with felony coercion.

As a footnote, April of this year Jones met with the Commissioner to discuss his behavior, admitted to Roger Goodell that he needed to shape up and said he was reforming by avoiding "nightclub" scene. When Goodell asked Pacman when the last time he was at a strip club, Jones sheepishly admitted that it was the previous evening. Nice one, Pac.

As an additional footnote, Pacman recently violated league mandated curfew by getting pulled over going 24 miles over the speed limit at 12:45 AM this May.

Tank Johnson:

November 2005, arrested for possession of a handgun.
While on probation, charged with aggravated assault and resisting in February of 2006.
December 2006, police find six firearms in Johnson's apartment.

Chris Henry:

December 2005 - speeding leads to a possession of marijuana arrest. No driver's license or insurance, either.
January 2006 - charged with firearm concealment and aggrevated assault.
Listing this only for the sake of being complete -- (<u>Allegedly</u> underlined here for reasons I'll discuss in a moment) played some role in a "sex crime" committed April of 2006. Polie are considering pressing charges against the person who filed the claim for filing a false report.
June 2006 - driving while intoxicated.
Oct. 2006 - violated the league substance abuse policy and was suspended for 2 games by the league.
Spring of 2006 - provided minors with alcohol.

Tank and Chris Henry win by 1 infraction. Although I might be undercounting on Pacman as it is frequently reported that he's been questioned by police 10 times since joining the NFL.

Hogs Haven

by Skin Patrol on Jun 6, 2007 9:01 AM CDT up 0 recs

Everyone hold your breath,

I am about to semi-defend #32. The more time that passes on the Vegas thing, the more it seems that no charges will be filed against #32. Him banging a stripper's head against the stage has not been said by anyone except for the co-owner of the night club. That guy is a crook. If the police had that on tape, as they claim, he would have at least been arrested by now. It just appears they don't have any evidence against him.

So, for the sake of argument, we are going to take Vegas out of the equation. The incidents with #32 are less severe than the ones from the other 2. I understand the number is out of control. I am not opposed to them suspending him, but severity of incident has to be taken in at some point.

While we are on the topic, which I hate by the way, let's talk about Vick. He shot the fans the bird, had a water bottle that he wouldn't give up which allegedly had weed in it, and has all of this dog fighting stuff. Doesn't that mean he has to get at least 4 games? Tank has 3 incidents and got 8.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Jun 6, 2007 9:25 AM CDT up 0 recs

Let's presume...

for a moment that Pacman Jones didn't do anything criminal, that everything he is alleged to have directly been involved in is false. Here are the undisputed facts:

Pacman Jones threw dollar bills onto the stage of a strip club.

A woman Pacman Jones was with hit a guard in the head with a champagne bottle and resisted arrest.

Minutes later, someone sprays the club with bullets, which strike three people paralyzing one.

While this may not be enough to call Jones a criminal, it doesn't mean he's free from blame. I would posit that if Jones never shows up, with his entourage, at that particular strip club, that no one gets shot.

Anyways, even bypassing the stripper incident, as mentioned above one thing Pacman did goes well beyond what either Johnson or Henry did, and that was fraudulently presenting himself to the Titans. In bizarro world, I can at least imagine an employer who wouldn't care what you did outside the workplace, even criminal activity, so long as that did not interfere with the work you do there. That isn't the case with the NFL, but whatever.

I cannot even imagine the hypothetical employer who would be indifferent to you fraudulently representing yourself to the company. Tank Johnson and Chris Henry damaged the NFL's reputation incidentally for their indiscretions, just as Pacman Jones did. The difference between them and Pacman is that he actually did something to the NFL, directly.

There is no litmus test here that says "X convictions" or "Y arrests" or "Z incidents" = "P weeks suspension". Pacman Jones repeated unprecedented amount of police incidents (even if you want to classify them as "less severe", which they are not), his total lack of sincere contrition, and his fraudulent representation absolutely call for an unprecedented suspension relative to his peers, in this case Tank Johnson and Chris Henry. I do not think we can reduce this to merely a math calculation where we plug in arrests and get an acceptable number of games suspended. Rather we should view all his behavior holistically, and rule based on what kinds of actions the league wants to prohibit more than others. Fraudulently representing oneself is a lot worse (from the league's perspective) than DWI or gun possession, for obvious reasons. The latter two only damage the reputation of the league incidentally. Fraud directly damages the integrity of the NFL and its operating structure, and makes it difficult to enforce its own rules.

Do you think your employer would care more that if you got a DWI or if you lied on your resume? I can imagine an employer who could ignore the former, but not one who would ignore the latter.

Hogs Haven

by Skin Patrol on Jun 6, 2007 10:19 AM CDT up 0 recs

I guess my concern

is more about endangering lives than the reputation of the NFL. (I know the Vegas thing endangered lives, but again, that is not even factored into the current suspension)

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Jun 6, 2007 10:51 AM CDT up 0 recs

But from the employer's perspective?

Would they care more if you put people in harm's way without actually harming anyone or allegedly actually contributed to very real human suffering and fraudulently represented yourself to the league?

Personally, I would punish both parties. And that's what Goodell did.

Let's get this straight though. It appears you disagree with Goodell's prioritization of events (and we disagree on your assessment of that) and that is fine. Do you a) think Tank Johnson and Chris Henry should be punished more than Pacman Jones or b) Pacman Jones suspension should be less than it currently is? In other words, is your disagreement with the policy is that it was too strict on Pacman or not strict enough on other players?

Hogs Haven

by Skin Patrol on Jun 6, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up 0 recs

C

I think because of #32's number of incidents, his punishment was fair. I just think these other players were not disciplined enough. You can search through this entire site and you won't find one time where I said #32 didn't deserve what he got.

Titans Blogger at Music City Miracles

by Jimmy on Jun 6, 2007 11:58 AM CDT up 0 recs

Fair enough

Hogs Haven

by Skin Patrol on Jun 6, 2007 12:19 PM CDT up 0 recs

Me

and... ummm.. Jimmy agree!

I think Pac got what he deserved. I think Henry and Johnson got off easy.

Johnson and Pac's trouble almost mirror each other. Johnson doesn't have as "many" incidents. But he's head and shoulders above Pac with convictions and jail time

by white02slpss on Jun 6, 2007 4:47 PM CDT up 0 recs